Injuries and red cards caught up with us today as a poor performance led to a one goal loss to West Ham. Despite the paucity of our display, West Ham offered little beyond shape and discipline, so whilst I cannot argue we deserved anything from the game, it would be generous indeed to say the Hammers deserved to win it. This one was no advert for the Premier League.
We spent the first half holding down the pilot light without ever sparking a flame as we just weren’t pumping any gas. Click, click, click, it kept making that annoying sound but, ironically, nothing was clicking for the Gunners.
We had most of the ball and the game was played between midfield and the West Ham third of the pitch – they rarely troubled us. Despite threatening to ignite, all we could manage was a long series of nearly moments, often failing to make the most of promising situations when one good ball would have led to a shooting chance.
Rice needed to be more involved, but he left Trossard and Calafiori to exchange passes on the left wing, both rather scattergun in their final delivery. The Italian volleyed our first shot on target after thirty-five minutes. When the ball recycled to Trossard he swung a deep cross over everybody, which was typical on the day. Ødegaard was poor all game. One of his worst performances in a while and the man who scored fifteen PL goals in a season no longer looks a threat. He failed to look after the ball, misplacing too many passes and hitting one shot which would have been more useful at Twickenham than the Emirates. Norwegian rugby must be rueing his loss.
Nwaneri lost possession the first two or three times he got the ball, but he warmed into the half and looked especially dangerous when he drifted towards the right wing (positionally, not politically). Today was a reminder not to put too much expectation on a young player who needs to develop his consistency.
We need him to forge a connection with the captain and Timber. If the former was in the doldrums, then the latter offered very little. Timber is a player I really like. He has a great attitude and lots of quality. He gets into good positions and keeps the shape of the team. But he offers almost nothing decisive from an attacking perspective. He rarely scores or assists, and that right side has gone from dangerous to toothless. I was keen to see White in the second half as we badly needed overlapping runs to draw a defender away from Ethan.
In the 42nd minute, Merino threaded a lovely ball through to a surging Rice, but the out-of-sorts dynamo failed to pull the ball back and the chance was gone. It was the first of two poor moments in the boxes from him.
After a very quiet attacking performance, West Ham took the lead two minutes later. Ødegaard and Timber lost the ball on the edge of the opposition box and all it took was a couple of quick passes to release Wan-Bissaka in acres of space down our left. He advanced to the byline, did well to get his cross past Calafiori and in front of Raya, where Jared Bowen nodded it home. The England man owed a debt of gratitude to Rice, who had tracked his run for fifty yards, kept his eye on him nicely, and then just slowed up at the critical moment, failing to intercept the cross by a foot. The Irons’ fans had been giving him some stick, so why he thought they deserved this gift was beyond me. It cost us big time. It was an awful goal to concede, and it changed the match. This was the big regret on the day, because even playing badly we could have turned this lot over, but we gave them a goal that we just could not afford to do. 1-0 looked like the only possible winning scoreline if we continued to be so anaemic in attack – we needed to maintain our defensive solidity but we threw it away by failing to do the basics. This team has been worked to the bone and it is tired.
Arteta gave it ten minutes in the second half and hooked Rice and Calafiori for Zinny and MLS. We tried to threaten but it was tough going. Trossard had an effort saved, but we mostly failed to create shooting opportunities and, when we did, we missed the target. Merino tried hard, but his limitations were clear. We’ll see if he starts the next one or goes back to impact sub.
On 70 minutes, MLS and Gabriel played a poor series of passes to each other, inviting pressure, and a heavy touch from the youngster gave Kudus a sniff. They scrapped for the ball on the halfway line, it bobbled through the defender and he brought Kudus down. It could have been given as a foul against Kudus (some days it would be, but we’d have been lucky if it had been) but once Craig Pawson decided it wasn’t, he had a decision to make. He was not exactly sure where the keeper and other defenders had been at the time of the foul and so he made the sensible decision to award a yellow, knowing that VAR would have a look at it. This they duly did, and we can have no complaints when it was upgraded to a red. Our distribution was sloppy all day (only Partey got a pass from me on his usage of the ball) and it was our own fault we got caught. MLS had to bring Kudus down to prevent a goal, and the rest is history.
The thing is, even with 10 men, if we had twenty minutes to score a single goal to win the game then the Ems would have been rocking and the pressure on (it’s easy to say I told you so, but that’s also the time I’d have liked to see Merino enter the fray up top). Instead, we knew we had to score two, as even a point didn’t feel like enough, and (watching on tv) the atmosphere felt like no-one expected us to get the two goals we needed. Ødegaard tried to rouse the crowd with his arms, but his feet were not on the same page. With everyone in the box he played a six-yard pass to Saliba, who wasn’t expecting it (neither was anyone else, it was a terrible decision) and passed it back to Raya in an uncharacteristic flap.
We brought White on with five minutes to go, and despite having Merino and Gabriel to aim at, we refused to cross the ball from wide positions. Remember the Inter game where we swung 376 crosses at our smallest players? Well, this was the reverse. We ignored our biggest lumps and fannied about on the edge of the box.
Eight minutes of injury time roused the crowd but the best chance fell to a breaking Ferguson and Kudus. They took a leaf from our book though and messed it up without getting a shot off.
With the home faithful baying for an equaliser, we had a last corner. Raya went up but it was cleared. Our keeper outsprinted some West Ham lad to the halfway line and backheeled the ball skilfully past him to get us going again. It was probably the best thing we did all day.
So, the chance to catch up points on Pool was wasted. I am sure there will be lots of opinions about how much this result might cost us, and it is a bit too close to the action for me to throw my two cents in. I just don’t know. We will see how it plays out.
I did not like the balance of the team and there were too many poor performances. Hopefully Arteta will have learned a few things as he seeks to redeploy his scarce resources as effectively as he can for a few more games. Saka and Gabigol cannot come back quickly enough.
The thought I want to end with is that we have had a lot of injuries and a lot of bad luck this season. Our squad is not big enough. But the players on the pitch, those very same players who were not good today, gave it their all. They worked hard for the badge, they deserved the support they got from an excellent crowd, and I cannot ask more than that.
This one hurt us as fans. It will have hurt them as players. We are hurting together. But we will be ready for the next one together too.
Victoria Concordia Crescit.
Until next time, ‘holics.
That’s an excellent abd fair assessment of a very difficult day for Arsenal marked by lack of incision in attack. Many thanks, GSD.
This quote both relates and doesn’t relate to the MLS red card, which was really very marginal in my view.
“If the referee shows the red card live, I say, ‘okay’ but the VAR, clear and obvious…? If they put it on normal speed we have a chance and if they put it from five angles we have a chance, but if they slow the speed and put the worst angle on obviously the decision is very easy.”
— Bournemouth boss Andoni Iraola, speaking to Sky Sports, on the red card that reduced his team to ten men.
That sounds and reads exactly like the game I listened to on the long drive home from north of the wall. I had high hopes that a win today would have put sufficient pressure on Lpool that we might have only a five goal deficit with a game in hand. ‘Twas not to be.
One obvious difference between this season and last is the form of our captain Martin O. I don’t really have any confidence that he’s a game changer. Some nice but infrequent moments but that is about it.
I was pleased to learn GSD was compiling the report , not because I bear him any ill will ( entirely the contrary ) but I knew he would bring balance and fairness to his account and would also not get too down on the team. He did that impeccably , well done sir .
In retrospect we can see that last summer’s transfer window was nowhere near good enough and boy did it show today . We should qualify for the Champions League but scoring goals for the rest of the season will be very difficult . As I drove back from the station tonight I learnt of a match winning performance by Villa’s two subs either of which would have crawled to North London to play for us. Boy could we use Rashford now particularly as Nwaneri limped off ( hopefully with cramp)
As for the game I gasped in horror when MLS fouled Kudus . I’m not sure if Andy Robertson fouled Kudus there he would have been sent off but this wasn’t an injustice like the Wolves fiasco. Nevertheless there would have been a lot of schadenfreude bubbling up in Stockley Park .
We were terrible . Partey was probably our best player – he merited a 6 in my view. Odegaard is a shadow of the player of the last two and a half years and Saliba was very sloppy .
One to forget . Roll on next season
One further thought on the concept of a red card for a professional foul to prevent a clear goalscoring opportunity. Just inside the opposition half is a long way from goal . I once saw Arteta red carded at Selhurst for bringing down Chamakh ( remember him? ) in almost exactly the position Saliba and MLS were penalised. Chamakh wouldn’t have scored in a million years but that wasn’t the point .
I think there needs to be consistency about what a clear goalscoring opportunity is. Today I don’t think Arsenal had such a thing ! Be sure that ranks will close around Arsenal tonight on MOTD and when the likes of Carragher and Neville have their say.
In hindsight, looking back at the Leicester game against a team who apart from Southampton, have conceded the most goals in the league, we were bereft of any creativity until the late ‘ Hail Mary ‘ substitution which gave us a flattering win.
This glossed over the paucity of the previous 80 minutes, and but for the big toe of MLS could have been a major upset.
We had a whole week to recover and prepare for the Hammers visit, but again we got more of the same lack of vision and creativity as we did against Leicester.
I was disappointed to see Calafiori in the starting 11, as he is nowhere near MLS in terms of defensive nous, and is much more effective as the 2nd half sub making those surging runs against tiring defenders.
I can only assume Arteta had one eye on the game at Forest midweek, so rested MLS with that in mind.
No surprise the the very few Hammers attacks were down our right side, including the decisive goal.
As it is now, he will have to start at Forest, with MLS out after red card.
As with the players, they can sense very early on whether the opposition is ‘up for it ‘,
and the intelligent supporters among the crowd can sense it also.
My Brother was watching the game with his mates in a Pub somewhere, and even he said that as the game progressed, the usually boisterous atmosphere was gradually more subdued as events unfolded, and many regulars had accepted it was going to be a very difficult afternoon well before the end.
Ode sadly looks more and more forlorn and rudderless , firstly after losing his bestie Saka on the right side of the pitch, then losing Gabi on the left side, and finally Kai down the middle.
When he looks up now with the ball at his feet, he sees ahead of him, a shadow of his former self in Sterling, a young inexperienced 17 yr old in Nwaneri, a willing but 2nd level Leo, and a solid but unspectacular midfielder in Merino, thrown up front as a last resort.
No wonder we are struggling.
I’m amazed that with all the serious injuries we have suffered this season, we are still the 2nd best team in the league by a fair margin, and are in with a 50/50 chance of making the last 8 of the CL.
If we can somehow find the resolve and reserves of energy to get positive results from Forest/Utd and Chelsea in the league, and PSV in CL, before the Int’l break mid March, and still be in the mix, before hopefully Gabi and Bukayo can return for a final push in April/May, then we can still have a successful season in relative terms.
The loss to the Hammers is damaging, another one at Forest could be fatal.
We will know pretty early on in that game whether the players still believe or not.
Fingers and everything else crossed that they do.
There is no sugarcoating a poor performance and a worse result, but that was about as fair a reckoning of the underlying fare as is to be had in the circumstances, GSD. Fair play to you. As you imply, until we conceded a goal we shouldn’t have done, we were favourites to find a 1-0 win somehow, but thereafter, it never looked like we could win it.
This isn’t the first time we’ve failed to find that combination of individual skill, crosses and link-up play needed to break down a low block. We usually only find it when Ødegaard is on song and threading through the passes. However, he needs people to pass to to be on song. Catch-22.
Thanks GSD. Tough gig but you capture the experience. We didn’t do our jobs- we just weren’t up to it.
Still tortured here. It looks very much like this run-in is going to be a pretty tough experience. I fear there will be wailing and rending of clothing. Arteta has a massive challenge.
Thanks GSD, as others have said that’s a fair report of a grim experience.
What Matt said.
Bath’s outlook of
‘wailing and rending of clothing. Arteta has a massive challenge’
and Sweeper’s more cautiously optimistic
‘If we can somehow find the resolve and reserves of energy to get positive results from Forest/Utd and Chelsea in the league, and PSV in CL, before the Int’l break mid March, and still be in the mix, before hopefully Gabi and Bukayo can return for a final push in April/May, then we can still have a successful season in relative terms,
bookend nicely the potential bag of pleasures that the rest of the season promises.
Up until yesterday, I was quietly optimistic. I think the focus now needs to be on securing a top four finish and a defeat at Forest could indeed be fatal. I’m braced for a very challenging run in. Such is sport, as Finn Russell might well be reflecting this morning.
So apparently we are not very good against teams who adopt the low block and play on the counter. Forest are super at playing this way with Woods their giant redwood leading the line. The only way to play against this is fast incisive passing and movement into space and not being static and hiding behind opposition players. I trust Mikel and the coaches are working on this before the game and not just letting them go out there to amble around. Otherwise it will be another 3 points dropped and we can’t afford to be out of the top four.
Running on empty headedness. If only someone on here had an ongoing, look-at-me, puffed-up fantasy direct line to the manager’s innermost thoughts, then we’d all know which way the wind blows.
Smugged off – sadly.
We played Forest well at home this season but that was with a fit attack. On the other hand Forest are having a pretty terrible weekend too.
After this drubbing will we see Forest crumble like rotten old oaks or whip back up like flexible saplings on Wednesday evening?
The determined comeback from Forest suggests we will experience the latter! The players who make the squad will certainly have to find their best form.
BDSMgooner @15 – kinky!
The GHF Predictathon update for Match Week 26 will be delayed until Monday as the monks are down for routine maintenance…
It’s a bit early for post mortems but I was discussing our goalkeeping situation with someone yesterday . We were keen to sign Garcia of Espanyol but they felt our bid was derisory and we ended up getting a favour from Edu’s mate who was Neto’s agent . His main opportunity would have come in the League Cup but Neto was already cup – tied for that competition before we signed him ! Had Raya got an injury ( or gets one ) the Neto we saw at Girona didn’t inspire any confidence . It increases the impression that our planning in the summer window ( which was brilliant the year before ) wasn’t anywhere near as coherent this time . I like Merino but so far Calafiori hasn’t convinced me he can hack it in the Premier League . He needs more time but MLS and Timber look better bets to me than the Italian Stallion . We really do need a top Sporting Director in place in good time
Monks down for routine maintenance. I could mention the word kinky but surely that would miss the point. Perhaps they have been let out for their weekly stint in the exercise yard?
Well done, GSD – fair account of the match and the general situation.
My own thoughts, for what it worth, on why we are where we are –
I think it’s a mixture of a number of things.
Calafiori having some French lump land on his leg on international duty and Merino breaking his shoulder in his first training session was pure bad luck. As was Odegaard getting crocked for 10 weeks also on international duty.
Saka and Havertz both seem to me to be the victims of fatigue and overuse – by club and country – which could possibly, not definitely, have been prevented by having better back up in the squad. Ben White had played an awful lot of games before he needed surgery but his potential backup missed the whole of his first season with an ACL suffered in his first game ! So a combination of planning and bad luck.
Failing to improve our forward and striking departments for 2-3 years is the bad planning and ending up relying on a spent Raheem Sterling is shocking.
Maybe the club felt we had been scoring record numbers of goals spread all round the team and didn’t need a focal point number 9. Unfortunately the goals around the team dried up with the injury absences and we are now left with the worst of all worlds.
Also on the bad luck side are the series of appalling refereeing decisions we’ve suffered. They have cost us a minimum 9 points and that has finally killed our title challenge.
MLS and Nwaneri are the first two of a number of potential gems coming through the academy so there are big hopes for the future. Sadly, not this year though.
Good analysis Trev.
The sort proper fans make. We’ve got a lot wrong but this is a wonderful club and so much is good about it . Perhaps the lesson from the weekend was that if we could have made the loan signings Villa did it would have rejuvenated what looks a very tired squad .
Liverpool are going to win deservedly this season. We need to be ready in August to right the wrongs of a very frustrating season. We will come again !
You have pretty much nailed it there for me Trev. At the same time Liverpool keep winning or at least not losing.
I don’t think that was envisaged last Summer when our forward chasing efforts seemed to concentrate on the unproven Sesko and that was about it. We thought we could rely on goals from all over the park but these have completely dried up.
So we end up with Liverpool pretty much nailed on to win the league in February. A damning scenario nor just for Arsenal.
The frustrations are highlighted in all these games in the past two seasons where we are undone by the likes of West Ham, Brighton and Villa. All our losses seem to follow the same pattern.
We will need to invest in the summer, and I expect we will. January business is always tough and we should aim to get the players we want in the door during the off-season. That said, I hope the club keep at least one PL loan spot free, just in case something unforeseen means we do need to add something in January. There’s a lesson to be learned there.
This year, I don’t think we would have been able to do enough in January (we’d have needed about 4 top quality players!) and we don’t want to be in a situation where January signings are vital again, so we will need to make those signings.
Striker, winger, central midfielder – all top drawer. Younger midfield player to develop and goalkeeper. That’s 5 at a minimum. Tierney goes. Sell Zinny. Sterling and Neto back to their clubs. Can we sell Fabio Vieria? What to do about Reiss Nelson? Anyone else who we sell would need to be replaced. We could do with a young 3rd choice striker. Maybe another body in midfield as Partey and Jorgi are off and we need a bigger squad anyway. That would take us up to 7 players needed. That’s a lot.
Lots to do and TTG is right that we need a new Sporting Director in place soon. We need the right man, and he needs time to get his feet under the desk and plan with the board and manager so he’s ready to hit the ground running when the window opens.
It’s hardly a surprise that we are so ineffective up front in the absence of our four first choice forwards. None of the ‘automatisms’ that so successfully opened up opposition defences are available to the first choice midfielders. When our forward line consists of a teenager, albeit extremely talented, a central midfielder yet to find his feet in his new club and a bit part player who blows hot and cold, with the sole back up a loan player whose best years are a long way behind him, we’re going to struggle to score any goals in the rest of our games.
I cannot recall seeing a team suffer such an extensive evisceration of attacking talent in all my years of watching football. I am sure that Trev has correctly highlighted that overplaying is a major factor behind the absences of White, Saka, and Havertz , and perhaps Martinelli, the simultaneous absence of Jesùs and the earlier absence of Ødegaard have contributed to the need to overplay those players as of course has the absence of suitable back-ups. No-one could have predicted that we would suffer simultaneous loss of all the players on whom we have depended for goals alongside a decline in goals from midfield. These absences underline the poor management of last summer’s window and we were clearly unable to mitigate the consequences during January.
We are where we are. As GSD says, we must learn the lessons from this experience, address the glaring gaps in our squad and move forward. But first we must support our patched up team in trying to ensure that we finish in a CL qualifying spot as the income that competition brings is clearly essential to our ability to maintain our recent level of competitiveness.
COYG
I have to say, I’m not at all worries about CL places, and fully expect us to finish second. We’ve got the best defence by some distance, so we don’t need to score multiple goals to win games (for contrast, I think Villa have got 3 clean sheets all season). We are 10 points ahead of fourth and it would take a big swing against multiple teams in 13 games to be out of the CL places. I know fans often worry, but the squad won’t panic and I think we will stay ahead of the inconsistent chasing pack without too much trouble.
The last couple of seasons we’ve thrown in the odd stinker, and we sure did that at the weekend. I don’t think we’ll be that bad consistently, and we are good at grinding out results, so I reckon the last game isn’t a reliable marker of how we’re going to perform for the rest of the season. Pretty much everyone had an off day, individually and collectively.
Ben White is a massive boost, and when we get Saka and Gabigol back we’ll be okay. A win against Forest would keep a rival at bay and steady the ship, so let’s see how that goes.
UTA!
The latest GHF Predictathon leaderboard and form guide have now been posted. The monks thank you for your patience.
You know where to find it…
An excellent piece from the sadly now rarely seen Keenos on SheWore:
Trev@21: On the money. Good sense from Bath and GSD in response, too.
To double up on Trev’s point, with the exception of Salah, who must be an iron man, Havertz and Martinelli have played more minutes this season than any other Liverpool forward. Saka has played more minutes than Nunez and Jota. The other crucial stat is the ‘Pool forwards’ average minutes per appearance. Again with the exception of Salah, they just don’t get worked so deep into games on average as our forwards do.
Minutes played
Salah 3,220
Havertz 2,776
Martinelli 2,378
Diaz 2,367
Trossard 2,280
Gakpo 2,099
Saka 1,828
Nunez 1,710
Jesus 1,204
Jota 1,200
Sterling 831
Chiesa 370
Minutes played per appearance
Salah 85
Havertz 82
Saka 76
Martinelli 68
Diaz 64
Trossard 60
Gakpo 57
Jota 50
Nunez 49
Jesus 45
Sterling 42
Chiesa 37
Bath
Thanks for attaching the Keenos article . He writes eminent good sense and I also feel the same sort of agreement among most of the posters here . Goonerholic was always very supportive of Wenger even though I know Dave felt he needed to step down but didn’t want to harangue him publicly . Wenger wasn’t the subject of too much criticism from reasoned sources until he had been in situ about 15 seasons and even then most of us wanted him to voluntarily step down rather than be sacked . Emery lost favour very quickly , largely because of the Baku fiasco and his scrambled English but he produced a quite awful side in his second season ( albeit one that Arteta won the Cup with ) .
Arteta has still got credit in the bank and hopefully has used up most of his bad luck this season but as GSD points out we need possibly up to seven players and they don’t buy themselves . Let’s hope the bricks are in place for a great season next term
Fantastic work from the monks Ned, as usual.
I think Havertz has been excellent up front for us. But there is no doubt that Salah has made the difference this year. If you swapped their outputs then we’d be ahead of Liverpool. There is nothing else in their side better than us.
I imagine that if you swapped Salah for the main striker of any team in the league, that team would be at least ten points better off, some would be twenty or more better off. There are teams who have scored less goals than his combined total scored and assisted.
Excellent analysis in the bar from all the usual suspects, except C100, who has been absent over the weekend.
Hope all is okay.
Interesting stat i just read, apparently the win rate for home teams in PL this season is the 2nd lowest on record, at just 37%.
Whether this has been skewed by the 3 promoted sides being so abysmal i don’t know.
Or whether it is more down to the higher amount of money the clubs are getting from broadcasting rights, meaning that even the lesser lights in the PL are able to buy better players making them more competitive.
I’m more inclined to the latter reason.
Interesting angle on the MLS incident. That’s an elbow to MLS’s head BEFORE any tangle of legs:
https://x.com/jacktruthafc/status/1893693271194391030?s=46&t=QtYNyZI3id_tZczYpxTpDQ
Cheers Baff.
I put in the report that we’d be lucky to get a free kick for what Kudus did, based on the angles we saw. Looking at that link, I have to revise that view.
It’s a clear foul by Kudus and VAR should never have sent Pawson to upgrade his wrongly awarded yellow card to a red. Why was that angle not available at the time? It’s a blatant elbow in the head, and all actions after that are irrelevant.
Injuries aside, a different take on our season by Johnathon Wilson in the Guardian today.
If someone can post it in the bar, it might invoke some interesting discussion.
I had a look Clive put I’m not gonna link to it. In as far as discussion goes, he lost me completely when he claimed we were lucky MLS’ red card was overturned. We weren’t. It was an awful decision. Everyone in football agreed, and I’ve got zero respect for any lackey who says otherwise.
He criticises us for the other red cards we got (they are our fault for giving refs the chance to send our players off) whilst ignoring the multiple times Van Dyke has committed red card offences without even getting a yellow. It’s a long way from an objective assessment.
He’s written a puff piece for Liverpool whilst reworking the ‘Arsenal are soft’ trope so beloved in the media (all written with hindsight long after the events). There has already been discussion in the bar about the impact of Salah. I can see nothing persuasive in his assessment that Liverpool are somehow steely winners who get the job done when the competing theory is that Salah regularly makes the difference for them. The latter explanation is based on Salah’s amazing numbers. The former is based on his subjective and biased opinions. I’ve already got my own subjective and biased opinions, which, amazingly, don’t include me making up convoluted psychological weaknesses in teams I don’t support.
Liverpool are an excellent side with one particularly outstanding player who’s been head and shoulders above anyone else this year. We’ve been the best of the rest but injuries, refs and squad planning have stopped us getting too close to the leaders. I can do without being told that “there has been a sense of acquiescence in disappointment”. That might be his sense but, personally, I’m dubious of how much sense he has.
Wilson’s argument does rely on ignoring incidents like these
https://x.com/kpmufc/status/1887807317812383813?s=48&t=QtYNyZI3id_tZczYpxTpDQ
…as well as the video Baff posted @34.
If I want a pro Liverpool reimagined narrative of this league season then I’ll go to a Liverpool blog where they are clear about their perspective and aren’t pretending to write objectively for a national newspaper.
Well even without posting it GSD, it has certainly stirred up an emotive response from you.
Can’t say I agree with you though, as i find both him, Barney Ronay and Jonathon Liew, very enjoyable reads.
Why he would lose you completely just because he has a different take on MLS red card, is a bit drastic, but then your whole post is a very emotional riposte to the article.
I don’t and never have thought referees have an agenda, and were biased against us.
They have an enormously difficult job to do, with the game played at 100 miles an hour, and every player pushing the envelope to see what they can get away with, cynical off the ball dark arts, falling over as if shot every time there is the slightest touch, and some of the tackling is bordering on GBH.
So it is not surprising they make mistakes.
They were making them before VAR, and they will keep on making them, sometimes they go against us, sometimes they go for us.
We play the ‘ why us ‘ card too often, to hide the fact that with indiscipline we keep giving them decisions to make.
Both already on yellows, Rice was too clever for his own good, Leo was stupid, so they were our own fault.
Willie’s card was justified, and having viewed the Kudus challenge, you see that plenty of times in games, it’s a tough physical sport and if you are going to blow for a foul every time a player puts his arm across his opponent, then you would never stop blowing the whistle.
As for Van Dyke getting away with no yellows or Reds, where has that statement come from. ?
Do you watch Liverpool regularly to form this opinion.
He is a great defender just like Willie and Gabi, and they do what it takes to get the job done.
Gabi hasn’t been sent off this season, and i don’t think our 2 boys have picked up many yellows either.
You make plenty of assumptions,
It’s a puff piece for Liverpool, really ? one eyed to say the least on your part.
Recycling the ‘ we are soft ‘ trope, that’s not what he said at all, as it’s clear that we have let slip too many points in games when we have lacked a cutting edge or the
‘ fuck this’ principle to turn draws into wins this season.
That is also what cost us the title in the 2 previous seasons, and all against supposedly weaker sides.
So he has a point.
Someone should post the article in the bar just to see what the rest of the patrons think.
Although I’m pretty sure i know what the answer will be.
Bath@34: The commentators on the US stream I was watching pointed that out at the time but said it wasn’t enough to be a foul on MLS, as Kudos was just using his strength.
GSD
I’ve just looked at the 5 isolated incidents with VVD.
Not sure what the fuss is about.
I’m sure you could do that for plenty of other players who put themselves about.
We’ve had plenty of tough nuts in our history that give the opposition a ‘ let you know I’m here ‘ touch up.
But no intervention from VAR, so they obviously didn’t deem the incidents worthy of a 2nd look.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/feb/24/arsenal-liverpool-premier-league
There you go Clive.
Thnks SP
Appreciated.
I think that column falls into the lazy journalism category more than anything.
It does feel a bit rushed out to a deadline without going into much depth. Even the title makes little sense.
*nudges ball away from VVD and forward towards….*
Clive. I don’t think you can have it both ways. When Rice flicked the ball it did not occur to him that he would be sent off, because we have never seen that before or since, yet you characterise that as indiscipline. When VVD twice kicks out at Havertz off the ball, you say that was not an example of indiscipline for the reason that VAR looked at it and deemed it not worthy of action. I do not understand the logic behind that. One is a nothing incident, one is a player losing his rag and trying to hurt a fellow professional. To characterise the former as indicipline and claim the latter is not (when it is obviously much worse) seems very strange to me.
You might think it drastic to be lost by a disagreement over MLS red card but many observers thought it the worst decision they had seen in football. Here is a quote from my own match report.
“What Michael Oliver did today was as close to the above scenario as you will see. He gave Myles Lewis-Skelly a red card for an offence that is not a red card under the rules of football. It never has been in the past and it still isn’t today. If you see or read anyone claiming the decision was correct then you know immediately that they are either corrupt, moronic or dishonest. Or a combination of the three.”
Sure, VVD won’t get a red for all of those five, but he’s lucky not to have been sent off for any of them, especially given the cards we have accrued. Not a single one of those actions is disciplined, which is your criterion for having no valid complaints about receeiving a red.
Wilson gets no additional credibiltily for this missive because he is colleagues with the excellent Liew and the inconsistent Ronay. His piece did wind me up.
You nailed it yourself when you say we drew matches through lacking a cutting edge. Exactly what Salah provides to Liverpool. His scoring crucial goals on days when they aren’t great has been vital, but using it as a smokescreen to argue that there is a qualitively different attitude to the sides is, as Ned says, lazy.
As to referees and agendas, who cares? There have been decisions that have gone against us that we have not seen before or since and that have cost us points. I do not think they have cost us enough points to be ahead of Pool right now, but claiming we have not faced some decisions that have been inconsistent to the general standard is ignoring the facts. You can interpret them how you like. But it is seems to be the modern way simply to deny facts we don’t like, rather than engage with them.
Kudus elbows MLS in the head. You don’t see that plenty of times in a game. In my report I said much what you say. Then I saw the replay which shows an elbow in the head. If MLS weren’t such a tough nut he’d have gone down clutching his head and we’d have got a free kick. Then he’d be accused of dark arts and simulation. Poor kid can’t win.
Ben Stokes hates the sporting usage of the word ‘ruthless’.
He says it means nothing and is just a word people apply depending solely on whether a team wins or loses. He says that he can control his team’s attitudes, preparation, actions etc, but, ultimately, he cannot completely control whether they win. So, it is nonsense to him that when they win for a bit they are ‘ruthless’ and when they lose a couple they lack a ‘fuck this’ principle.
If they have the right attitude and effort but lose a match it might be for many reasons, probably a combination of them, but it isn’t because they weren’t ‘ruthless’. Neither would they suddenly become ruthless if they’d won it.
Some people might agree or disagree with his assessment, but the Wilson piece is essentially an exercise in hindsight, using results to claim after the fact qualities only posited because of those outcomes. If our winner against Fulham had not been a foot offside then we’d have been ruthless. Instead, we lacked belief. It’s a self-serving analysis. Ben Stokes would not be impressed.
I hope we get our new Sporting Director sorted out soon, and I hope we get someone really effective in the role. We have an excellent team but we need a few additions to win the PL. If we don’t do it next year then it will get increasingly hard to keep all our players when, individually, many of them will be wanted by clubs who are regular winners.
I don’t think we have any issues with attitude, we just need more depth in the squad and some quality additions to the first team, especially in attack.
I haven’t read the Wilson article because I don’t read journalists whom I don’t respect and he has plenty of anti-Arsenal form. There’s enough of his content in the Drinks above to inform me that he continues to pick holes in Arsenal at every opportunity.
I’m with GSD in this debate. Indiscipline? FFS! Look at those red cards and show me where we lack discipline. GSD is correct in his observations about the double standard refereeing when it comes to VVD. If the Arsenal players were refereed to the same standard as the Dippers, particularly VVD, we would not have received any of those red cards and would probably be sitting with many more points in the bag. If VAR worked as intended that elbow to MLS’s head would have reversed the direction in which the foul was awarded – an arm outstretched it was NOT. Football is often a game of opinions and the opinion of the VAR is clearly the most important one at the present time.
Here’s a pro-Arsenal reflection on where we stand:
https://www.le-grove.co.uk/p/down-but-not-out
Cheers for the link Baff. An effortless half century.
Pedro has become one of my favourite Arsenal writers in recent times. He writes sensibly and well, with positivity but without lacking a critical eye.
Amusingly, he obliquely references Wilson’s article at the start of his own, highlighting it as a very different interpretation of events to one that holds validity to him.
Whatever we think of it, it’s certainly good to have the sweeper back in the bar, and you were right that the piece drew some comment! Drinks all round!
Well my last line at 39 was correct.
Lazy journalism,no depth and no respect,plus another double from GSD. At 47 and 48, with probably more to come before the day is done.
So let’s go with an Arsenal blogger who will justify our sense of injustice at the naughty referees who are biased against us, and let Pool and City get away with murder.
Was there an agenda against us last season or the season before when we were taking the league by storm. ?
Not to my knowledge, but suddenly there is one this season.
We are clearly miles apart on this issue, so we will have to agree to disagree.
I will be away till after the International break by which time our season could well be down the gurgler, but hopefully instead we will be eagerly looking forward to a CL clash with Real or Athletico Madrid.
Fingerds Crossed
As you also said @36, you certainly stimulated discussion. I can happily agree to disagree, Clive, and bear no ill will towards anyone with a different opinion. I await with interest decisions for other teams like the second yellow for Rice’s cheeky flick of the ball, the second yellow for Trossard (which mirrors the second yellow for RvP at Barcelona), the red for Saliba on the halfway line, the pen and red for Saliba for heading the ball away and not collapsing clutching his head and the two recent MLS red cards. I don’t readily subscribe to conspiracy theories but that’s an astonishing concatenation of misfortune. At minimum the failure to apply similar standards to other teams is an appalling lack of consistency.
Safe travels, Clive.
Well in for the half-ton, Bath.
It is good to have some robust but civil disagreement in the bar.
Clive@52: Just to clarify, I called it lazy journalism not in the sense that its arguments were not strenuous but in the sense that it was the sort of untaxing-to-write piece that columnists keep up their sleeves to knock out when they haven’t particularly got anything else they want to write about.
>>>>>>>