Every picture tells a story and the photo above explains quite a bit about this match report. This was my view from the Arthur Wait Stand which might explain a number of things about today’s game. I spent the entire match standing to see anything and had I been able to sit down I would have had a better view of some of the key moments including Aubameyang’s red card.
I toasted the Guvna’s birthday while spending a very pleasant hour with an old friend and his son and a couple of other friends before the match discussing prospects for the match. It would be fair to say Palace fans are not hugely enamoured with the excitement generated by Woy Hodgson’s football and they predicted that Palace would start slowly and not press us high up the pitch. I took this with a pinch of salt but I did empathise with their frustration at the failure to provide a better stadium than Selhurst Park given the significant transfer profits they have made and the revenues generated by several seasons of Premier League football. The ground to be honest is old, outmoded, uncomfortable and not fit to stage Premier League football in 2020. I’m not a great lover of every aspect of modern stadia but at least you can see a lot more than I saw today .But Selhurst is in many ways a throwback to the sixties and seventies with the strains of ‘ Glad All Over’ ringing out and majorettes greeting the teams as they made their way onto the field while a majestic and fierce-looking eagle flies from end to end.
I’m very fond of Palace, they were my local club as a boy and if we can’t win a trophy I’d be delighted if they did . I didn’t believe for a second they wouldn’t press us or hassle us but amazingly they let us completely dominate the first part of the match. We were unchanged from the United game and whilst our midfield isn’t the most mobile ( nothing with Xhaka in it could be described as mobile) we were massively on top and scored after ten minutes after a slick move between Ozil ( newly recreated by Arteta as an inside right- remember them? ), Lacazette and Aubameyang. Palace eventually, inevitably rallied after an incredibly one- sided half-hour and I was already getting concerned that we had only one goal to show for our superiority but we made it to half-time with Palace showing little threat other than the combative Ayew. Zaha seemed glued to the left touchline and we seemed as solid as this Arsenal defence can seem away from home on a cold January afternoon. Losing Torreira at half-time for Guendouzi was a disappointment. I so wished we had lost the static and slow Xhaka. The game was immediately more frenetic, Palace raised their energy levels and we had Xhaka , Ozil and Pepe on the pitch, a couple of luxury players too many for the sort of assignment this rapidly became.
Palace equalised through Ayew about ten minutes into the half, his shot taking a deflection off Luiz and leaving Leno stranded and I feared that we would become overwhelmed by Palace driven forward by McArthur, De Riedewald and Ayew. Luiz was solid and almost commanding at the back, a player reborn under the new manager , Guendouzi worked hard and was fitfully effective in getting us forward and then on 67 minutes over on the other touchline, bleeding miles from us, Aubameyang caught Meyer late on halfway and knowing our luck with VAR especially against this mob, I feared the worst and was not surprised to see a red card brandished towards Auba after an eternity. The replays I saw and presumably the fact that you could have cooked a decent omelette whilst Stockley Park were deliberating , suggested it was a rash and dangerous challenge, especially as Meyer was taken off to be replaced by a Tosun (careful how you read that).
Arteta brought on Martinelli for Ozil, an attacking move in the circumstances. I would have withdrawn Pepe who was having little effect but Lacazette appeared to be limping . Ultimately he was replaced by Nelson which suggested to me that either Arteta felt Arsenal could still win it or he really doesn’t rate Joe Willock.
There were two close shaves towards the end. Tomkins having a looping header for them scrambled away at the far post and then Pepe driving a shot firmly against the right-hand post and then seeing the Palace keeper make a brave, instinctive block from point-blank range to deny Lacazette from the rebound.
Does a point away to Palace with ten men for half of the second period represent progress? Certainly the team showed some spirit and decent defensive resilience and it is a game that we would have managed far less professionally were Emery still in charge but I have an inescapable feeling that our relative conservatism aftertaking the lead in the first half cost us victory. Palace were there for the taking in the first half of that first period but we let them back into the game or possibly were unable to resist their strength and determination. Whatever the case we need more dominant and mobile midfield players than Xhaka for a task like this and starting Martinelli with his pace and enthusiasm might have been a better choice than using Pepe. Nevertheless we are unbeaten away from home under Arteta or as the BBC put it ‘ Arteta has still failed to win away from home after taking over on December 20th’.
One final word- the referee didn’t have a great game. VAR makes officials too conservative and our foul count will rise as Arteta gets us to foul rotationally especially in midfield. There are far too many free-kicks and bookings in modern football and today, a decently fought local derby against a physical team was a case in point . Onwards to Sheffield United.
First
…and an excellent report too.
COYG
A truly excellent report TTG and remarkably quick as you were at the game.
Love the title as well. Your experiences with sight lines echoed mine at Goodison a couple of weeks ago. The worst has to be QPR, a low roof with slime oozing through it. Lovely.
Excellent report TTG. Much as I saw it with a far better view from the sofa. The match-going fan is definitely an untermensch these days.
All things considered, it’s another step forward for this team. I agree we failed to win all three points because of our failutre to press our advantage in the first 30. With 10 men away from home we almost won it late on but 1 point under these circumstances is more than we would have achieved under the unlamented Emery. A mid-field upgrade must be high on the summer shopping list. I expect that MA8 will have the failure to kill them off and the midfield deficit on his ‘to do’ list.
well done, ttg, and quickly (was best t’wer done…).
i think they changed their press after our goal, and we reacted badly to their uncalled physicality (ayew, i’m looking at you). maybe badly is overstating it; we sat back and let them run at us, and stopped doing the same…seemingly hung over from too much ue.
i don’t think i’ve said recently how much i appreciate artur’s hard work, and the fact that this place has actually come together. thank you!
I must pay homage to Artur for his hard work and industry in effectively restoring this site.Holic would be so proud to see it and to see the quality of debate and good humour on his special day. I am just about to crack open some Redbreast bought for me by a Manure supporter who I fixed some tickets up for . I must also particularly mention the dedication of Bath in honouring his great friend’s memory and the input and helpful advice from the likes of C100, Pangloss and Scruz. Top work chaps , it’s lovely to be gathered back here but obviously in subdued circumstances.
In the pub today I was ordering the drinks ( note for Steve T I believe 😃) and the chap next to me asked me the likely score. I said 1-1 and he said ‘ I hope your boys play well I like Arsenal’. I wondered how he could tell I was a Gooner but he claimed it was obvious ( I had no club colours and was with lots of Palace fans) . Perhaps we have a glow about us?
As he also commented how young I looked I think me might have been
a) mad b) blind or c)— this is the favourite, heavily pissed.
I do look very good indeed for 95.
you do look good, ttg…
Excellent match report TTG, and documentary photo of your constricted circumstances. There may not have been slime oozing from the roof such as Countryman describes at QPR, but the impression conveyed of Selhurst is all antiquated enough. They could probably get a loan for a new stadium if the bank officers were not convinced relegation may be just around the corner. Pity we couldn’t get another goal and pass them up in the table.
I must say though the Goonerholics packed quite a punch this weekend with the old 1-2 of Countryman’s preview and your match report. Did ‘holic very proud I’m sure.
5 stars for an excellent report TTG, the speed & flow of the Guvna in good evidence there. The more Palace realised a physical approach would pay dividends they pursued this to its full effect. I suspect that Wou is in his comfort xonr at this level. Albeit a disappointing result, I believe we are on the path back. I’m very hopeful that with time and some re-enforcements we will be well on the road to recovery. The general weaknesses of the team are well known and I’m sure Mikel will be dealing with this over the next few weeks.
Sincerest apologies to GSD for giving away the credit for your excellent match preview to Countryman. 😱
Scruz,
Thanks for the compliment but I was feeling a bit dishevelled there!
Pangloss
I checked the Opta Stats and there were exactly 35 fouls today . They committed 14 we were responsible for 21. That’s a foul about once for every two minutes the ball is in play.
I’ve not seen the game on TV but I didn’t have a sense it was ultra-dirty and Palace had to step up the physicality because they were being outplayed and needed to impose themselves physically. It was a bit like Monday’s game in reverse. We had to increase our physical presence , tackle more forcefully , challenge more effectively…and we did. I also saw a game last Sunday where West Ham did exactly the same in the second half against Gillingham after looking very low-key in the first half .
I am going to be controversial ( moi?) but aside from loathsome toads like Murphy, I don’t think there is generalised institutional bias against Arsenal. Xhaka should have been booked four times on Monday and Anthony Taylor gave a bizarre display of refereeing. Palace were forceful today and the ref was unimpressive but we did commit more fouls , we had a red card that was reasonable and I hope we don’t turn into Untold Arsenal who see conspiracy theories around every corner .
I love the physicality of football. I loved it as a player and I love watching it. When we used to steamroller teams through Vieira and Petit is was that wonderful nexus of athleticism , skill and power at work and because we were so physically imposing teams could not compete . I hope Arteta builds a similar ethos
TTG@ 12, seconded sir.
Excellent, swift work, TTG.
That was the sort of game that last season we would have lost and next season will win. But it gave a fair measure of the progress Arteta has made and the work he still has to do. It was also a game of two deflections; their’s off Luiz resulted in a goal and our’s off the post, a save.
Historical note on Selhurst Park. It was built in the 1920s and designed by Archie Leitch about a decade after he did Highbury. It originally had just one stand, what is now the Main Stand. The Arthur Wait Stand was added in 1969.
And a glass raised at Castle Ned to ‘Holic Day. All the monks salute you, Guv’nor.
Ned
Thanks for that info re Selhurst Park . Before the Artur Wait Stand was built it was a big muddy terrace like the one that used to exist at the Valley . I remember watching Palace knock Forest out of the FA Cup in the mid sixties. The stand behind tge goal we attacked in the second half is very annoying in that you get very little perspective and can’t tell how close a player is to goal. I watched us play Wimbledon and Charlton there as well. I think we have only lost twice there in our history
You are right, TTG. Only two defeats in 23 visits to Selhurst Park, a 1-0 in 1979 and the gutless embarrassment that was the 3-0 defeat in April 2017 in the dog days of the Wenger era — the first time Palace had scored more than two goals in a game against us anywhere.
Great report TTG – thanks.
Personally I thought the ref was
about average for the PL these
days. Inconsistent certainly but
not biased.
The performance has been well
described already – good for a
third, poor for a third and then
at least fighting for the last third.
Oddly (?) we got better after Auba was sent off. The ? is there because when the other team gets a man sent off we sometimes don’t take advantage either.
I hope Laca can find his mojo
in front of goal while Auba is
out.
More widely the familiar failings
were there yesterday – ceding
control, squandered possession
and loss of concentration. I don’t
think Mikel can turn those things
around quickly enough this
season to challenge for a CL
place so my hopes are for a
decent cup run and to finish
above Spuds. Ropey League
qualification is a mixed blessing
and I’m really not sure I want
it to be honest.
At 1-0 the stream I was watching threw up an ‘80% of play’ statistic in our favour. Almost immediately Xhaka and Luiz started to play the ball across and backwards in our own half, sometimes putting absolutely unnecessary pressure on AMN and Leno. Winning teams go for the jugular in these circumstances. It was a little reminiscent of the Chel$ki game a couple of weeks ago when 2-0 would have sealed a win – except worse, Palace were there to be completely emasculates at that stage.
Good colour and texture on Selhurst Park, TTG. Palace need to get up to Dundee and see the real Palace that is Dens Park and plan their rebuild accordingly 🙂 . On your reference to physicality in the PL; I love Laca’s physical endeavour for which I feel is often unfairly penalised. I regret (loathe is too strong a word, but I’m getting close) a couple of our players tendency to fall to earth on the messiest touch. Guen is primary culprit, Xhaka not far behind.
I too thought that Pepe was too luxurious fo a whole 90 minutes. I can’t believe that Arteta doesn’t have a high regard for Willock – he knows a talent when he sees it (Oh, wait a minute – he has endorsed Xhaka!). Finally, the TV stream view had me more critical of Ayew’s physicality than is apparent from your view through the keyhole. Enjoyed your report. See you next weekend.
@19 OM, a CL spot isn’t realistic. Good Cup runs would a bonus, but I think a Europa Cup win is unlikely and even six winning visits to Wembley in his final five years did little to bolster opinions on Wenger in his ‘decaying and nearly dead’ years.
My real hope for the rest of the season (now that the very real threat of relegation under Emery has been eliminated) is that Arteta will focus on forgeing firm foundations for new levels of commitment, behaviour and tactical nouse on which real success can be achieved in subsequent seasons. In doing so, I hope he will set a high bar for rating individual players ability and willingness to deliver on these and will wield a sharp knife accordingly.
Of-course, investment to address the (relatively few) areas of weakness in the current squad will be an essential component of future success. Those in the elevated seats of greatness need to provide more than verbal support.
Btm/ OM
Thankyou for your comments .
I agree with the sage of Dundee that CL qualification is not a pipe dream but it is unlikely. However I do think we could win the Europa League and it must be a priority. After all, lest we forget , Emery has won it three times and managed to steer us to the final last season past ( fairly effortlessly) Napoli and Valencia before we saw his tactical nous in action in the Chelsea match .
We haven’t got much squad depth. If, as I suspect Torreira is out for some time following his injury yesterday, that will be a grave blow as it will unite the rather inappropriate partnership of Xhaka and Guendouzi . We don’t have a proper back-up defensive midfielder if Torreira is crook.
It is worth remembering that when concerns about Emery started to surface many ( very reasonably ) thought our salvation lay in the return of Bellerin, Holding and Tierney . We are, more or less, still waiting for this to happen . None are likely to make much impact this season and only Tierney looks likely to me to be a first- team regular next season. I fear Hector’s loss of pace may be permanent .
What I think we are seeing is more fundamental coaching ( amazing that we should need to highlight this ) . For instance we are employing a tighter offside trap and the foul count has gone up as we discussed yesterday , to ensure we don’t get caught in transition as much as we did. And to my amazement a leader has emerged in Luiz, who I thought was a disaster a few weeks ago. He has really stepped up to the mark and has clearly responded to the new coach.
Btm is right , though that the key thing is that we have some direction but we will need extra revenue from Europe to retain and attract top talent going forward
Sorry I meant to say that I disagree with the Sage that it is impossible but I can’t see it happening, Slightly confusing meanderings by me there
I believe MA will walk the walk on
his expectations regarding effort
and output, and I agree that is the
first and most fundamental need we
have.
I didn’t think Luiz so bad this season –
he’s always been careless – and was
more annoyed with Papa’s performances.
I am worried about Torreira though as
he looks quite pivotal to how MA wants
to play.
Just spotted a wonderful piece in the Grauniad about Mourinhoball.
It does make me wonder whether this unbiased view from the press was for all those years while the odious Portuguee was managing Chavski and Manchester Oilers.
COYG
I haven’t posted anything about the game as I have seen highlights of the two goals and read the excellent report by TTG and what Blogs had to say this morning. And that’s it. So I’m not feeling very qualified to give opinions.
However, in reference to the result, the fact that were winning but didn’t hold on, Auba’s red and our eventual point, I will say one thing.
Bugger.
Great shout Pangloss. I think Jonathan Liew is one of the best journalists writing about sport. I was so glad he moved to the Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/jan/12/tottenham-liverpool-jose-mourinho-cynicism-supporters-fear?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Could Joe Willock take on the Torriera role, if the Uruguayan is to be out for a while? I share others’ misgivings about Guendouzi’s self-discipline at DM, although if Arteta can infuse that into him, it will make the Frenchman potentially one hell of a player.
My son-in-law and his cousin involved me in a What’s App discussion on the game last night . I only watched the last half hour( Mrs TTG is loving and tolerant but I had been away at Palace all day!) I expressed a very similar view to Liew ( but far less eloquently) .
Mourinho looks a football dinosaur in comparison to Klopp or Guardiola and dare I say it Pochettino and even , possibly in due course Arteta .Football evolves excitingly despite VAR, useless refs and cheating bastards and the tactical and physical revolution wrought by the very talented innovators is taking the game away from cynics like Mourinho. It’s not a perfect comparison but like comparing Ben Stokes and Geoff Boycott as batsmen .
We will soon see Moaninho bemoaning the lack of funds, trying to ridicule Arteta’s lack of trophies ( aside from the umpteen he has won as coach in the last two seasons ) and spewing bile at all and sundry. Some proclaimed him a bold choice by Levy , others knew it would end in tears but not for a while , but I think he is a largely busted flush and S***s will reap the whirlwind
Ned,
I’ve not seen much in the way of defensive capability in Willock’s play but who knows what Arteta can make of him. I suspect neither he or Ceballos are disciplined enough to sit . The only player in the staff I have seen who plays that holding role well ( other than maybe Luiz) is Robbie Burton but he hasn’t played a minute of first-team football. The silence around Torreira is disconcerting and not a good sign
The ideal player would be the lad Phillips who man-marked Ozil on Monday. He should be in the England squad . But he’d cost about £60 million!
Holic would put his stamp of approval on your write up TTG, quite sure. And yes, thank
you Arthur, very cozy here (feels right) and the bar is filling up nicely (so many folks
we know, thanks to Dave). xx
I think Arsenal is in trouble now, that RED CARD is a disaster for us. Unless Laca steps
up or Pepe (sighs) delivers.
Good to see you here, abb.
This new place is indeed beginning to feel a bit like the usual place.
@28 Ned,
That’s an interesting thought on
Willock. I must admit I saw him
and Dani as more Ramsey types
who’d be ok with Torreira in a CM
pairing if we had a solid defence
(sighs). Probably too lightweight
for tough away games?
I’d add Calum to the possible DMs at
the club mentioned by TTG, though
obviously no help in the short-term.
His passing range would be an issue
with Calum I guess but he’s not slow,
he can tackle, he doesn’t make many
mistakes and I like his attitude/ effort
this season. He’s teachable I think
and MA would be a good teacher for
him.
In the short term we have to cross our
fingers for Torreira or go with Xhaka/
Guen and hope they will listen carefully
when MA explains it’s not helpful to let
the other team run through big gaps in
the middle and boot the ball into your
net.
Welcome abb!
Welcome, abb, it is great to see you here! With Auba out for three matches it would be a great time for one of our youngsters to step up, or maybe for Martinelli to step up his already stepped up goal scoring exploits.
TTG, I thought Burton was more of an attacking midfielder than a DM. Last season he was playing as No 10 for the U-23s and although he started this season playing as DM for them, he has moved up to a more of a centre midfielder role since. He has trained with the first team of late, but, as you note, has not been given game time, which may speak volumes about Arteta’s assessment of his readiness (he is still only 20) or ability.
I think you could get Kalvin Phillips for a lot less than £60 million. He does have a patchy disciplinary record, however, with one of two suspensions a season as regular as clockwork.
OM, Wenger said that Chambers would end up playing DM, and Callum played there a lot for Fulham. Yet as you say, he does not provide an immediate solution to Torriera’s possible absence. Another candidate, as we scrape the bottom of the barrel, would be AMN, but that would just transfer the selection problem to right back.
ABB, Let me add my welcome to the others’. Laca is long overdue a return to goalscoring form. This would be the opportune moment to rediscover it.
Mavropanos has been loaned to Nuremberg in the German second division. Interesting move given our lack of fit centre halves. Talk of Mustafi’s departure this month may prove premature unless Harry Clarke is going to be promoted from the U-23s.
Ned,
Yes, I forgot about AMN though
there has been talk of him as a
DM. Can’t see it myself but I
have been wrong about players
more times than I can count 🙂
I’m still hopeful that Hector will
be back and solve our RB issue
for several seasons, mainly
because I enjoy watching him
play I suppose.
Best of luck to Mavro.
Interesting that MA ignored
Mus for the Leeds game even
though we were stretched – at
the time I assumed it was
because he would shortly be
gone but no news so far.
He’s not as bad as people make
out sometimes but still too
error prone to pick even amongst
our group of iffy CBs.
For those picking up on the Dangote chatter in the What’s App group, here is a link to the 2015 interview
https://www.bbc.com/hausa/sport/2015/06/150617_dangote_arsenal_intention
and an English language version
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/33163281
OM, easy to forget that Mavro is still only 22 and has had just 28 senior games in his career, 20 of them in Greece. He probably missed more games for us with injury than he was available for. Hopefully he will get an injury-free run in Germany.
Barca sack Valverde. When back-to-back titles and leading the league isn’t enough… But it makes one realise how high are the expectations of the very top clubs. And how far we have fallen.
Ned, Seeing as the BBC article says Dangote was the 67th richest man in the world in 2015, I checked his progress in Wikipedia: “As of January 2020, he had an estimated net worth of US$10 billion. Dangote is ranked by the Bloomberg Billionaires Index as the 88th-richest person in the world and the richest man in Africa, and peaked on the Forbes list as the 23rd-richest person in the world in 2014.”
Kroenke is currently 49th on the Forbes rich list so he might have enough clout, unfortunately, to stave Dangote off unless the oil refining really takes off. As I am in favor of a green planet, that is not my hope but Stan pavés the world with parking lots so represents no better hope on that score.
Telecommunications, cement, sugar and construction. Not sure about the oil refining any more.
Astonishing. But correct again, Ned. I saw a picture of Valverde driving away in his luxurious blue BMW.
Down to 11th in the money
league, 6th in the PL.
Champions League football is where the money is, OM. Missing out on that shows up on the bottom line soon enough.
Those Dangote businesses in full: https://dangote.com/our-businesses/
At least Dangote has a history of being a football fan, bt8b, so he scores over Kroenke on that score.
And our first half century hoves into sight…
The first 50 is certainly
an auspicious step Ned.
So I’ll raise a modest bat to
acknowledge the cheering
throng
Thunderous applause from this neck of the woods. A historic moment.
well in, om!!
now all we need is cba to have a grumble about lurkers, cow haters, and not being able to drink his treacle stout.
Overnight numerology futures trading received a boost on the Japanese market, I see.
Clock !!!!!
Yea, ATG!! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Finally got the new site saved to my iPad 🙄
Many thanks Arthur, you’ve done a fantastic job ( and now with the clock ) 👏 👏
The dev team included a Spud!
That’s one for the annals.
get in! FOYS, FIOS, big club my ass…
well done, ATG, and to your dev team.
We were talking on the WhatsApp group about Wille Young and the professional foul. Looks like the Guardian just caught up
https://www.theguardian.com/football/that-1980s-sports-blog/2020/jan/14/story-professional-foul-willie-young-alvaro-morata
not to be a pain in the butt, artur, but i compared the new clock with the one on dave’s site, and there was more than 10 days’ difference. then i ran a comparison with a calculator, and compared it; it’s a third set of days/etc. but close to dave’s. see attached.
april 17, 1961 (a day that will live in infamy) was a monday, and scum won an evening game against wednesday. i assume it was a 7 pm kickoff, and so the game was over by about 8:45 pm, gmt. using this calculator actually got me remarkably close to dave’s estimate: https://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?m1=04&d1=17&y1=1961&m2=1&d2=14&y2=2020&h1=20&i1=45&s1=&h2=10&i2=31&s2=13 it’s off by a half hour or so, so maybe games then started at 6:30 pm…
anyway, i don’t know if your dev team feels like dealing with it anymore, and it’s a bit of pedantry (shock, surprise, coming from scruzgooner!)…
interesting, countryman. pretty soon we will be seeing ads for “professional foul wear”, “professional foul weather gear”, “professional chicken-keeping tips”, etc. bloody internet.
Scruz,
My initial thought was that April 17 1961 was Easter Monday but that fell two weeks before . If it had the game would have been an afternoon kick-off but this game would have kicked off at 7.30 pm and ended around 9.15 pm as they did not have to wait for Stockley Park then and there were no subs allowed. I can’t remember what I was doing then as I had not discovered girls or rather I had but I was only 10.
So I think 9.15 pm on the 17th April was probably the time .
that makes an hour difference to here now, but that hour might also be down to daylight savings time, etc. so i’d go with 2115 local time until now; putting that into the calculator it gives us almost exactly an hour before dave’s time (14 hours v. 13 hours). or we use dave’s time and start at 2015…
Let’s just use Holic time. It’s not like we have to respect accuracy for that mob.
I get Dave’s time to the minute using a 9.15pm finish on April 17, and using Excel’s subtraction method for calculating elapsed time between two dates and times, not its DATEDIF function, which came up days off.
And well in for the half-ton, OM.
Despite my previous, the monks have turned up a bootleg match programme showing an 8pm kick-off.
https://football-programmes.net/clubs/view_prog.php?progID=132385#
Tweaked clock working like clockwork. Exclamation mark in place. Pangloss happy?
Nice clock adjustments.
We must plan a 60th anniversary dinner. Plenty time to plan. No prospect of early cancellation.
Hope everyone likes the new clock design….
I like FACT! occupying its own line, and the overall layout looks great. If there is space for additional cannons on the left and right of FACT! it might be worth a try adding them.
Ned as one of the oldest , if not the oldest , here I have to say that in the sixties games NEVER kicked off at 8pm. It is a comparatively recent innovation because of TV . Are we certain that bootleg ko time is genuine? Arsenal only started kicking off at 7.45pm in the late eighties .
That T****num game would not have been on TV as league games were not shown live then .
ttg@71, i think ned@64 sees the 9:15 finish time, implying the game started as you suggested, at 7:30.
Love the clock👍
Thanks ATG
Good luck to Iliev who has gone
on loan again, to Poland.
He looks to have been at the club
for 7 years already! Time flies.
It does seem a long time to make
up our minds on whether he’s
good enough.
TTG, I too, remember 7:30 pm as the invariable kick-off time in ’60s. That bootleg programme is the only reference to a kick-off time for that game that the monks have turned up. They found it offered for sale on the web site of a company that sells football programmes. That is as much of its provenance as they can vouch for. It is conceivable that an 8pm kick-off was to accommodate Wednesday fans travelling south by train after work (it would have been before the Breeching cuts so there would actually have been trains). However, I am happy with using 7:30pm for the clock, not least because that is what Dave did. Fact!
OM, My understanding is that the switch of loan clubs for Iliev is to get him playing at a higher level than he was in Slovakia. He recently signed a new contract that runs to 2022, so it looks as if the club has taken a positive view on his abilities.
No mention on the club site about Torriera being in the injury list ahead of the Sheffield Utd game. Hopefully a good sign.
https://www.arsenal.com/news/team-news-kolasinac-bellerin-chambers
But Kola out for that game. Saka to return at left back, one assumes.
Thanks Ned @76, I didn’t know
that was the case.
Though I usually wonder these
days about whether we really
want to keep the player or it’s just
a new contract to make sure we
get a fee when they leave.
No doubt both play a part – it
was simpler, though not fairer,
in olden times.
@77
Not sure what we can do but
Saka seems a real risk against
Sheff Utd at left back.
They are fairly smart tactically.
Still, no doubt iBTm will sort
it all out in his preview 😀
OM, I suspect that young keepers don’t command sufficiently large transfer fees to justify a long contract extension just to avoid them leaving on a free.
On the left back situation, I don’t think there are many other options to Saka, apart from playing a back three. Even then, Saka would be the likely left wing-back. With Tierney and Kola injured, Arteta would have to dip into the U-23 for a specialist left back, who would probably be Tolaji Bola. But he has 13 games less Premier League experience than Saka’s 13 games.
Arteta’s presser ( almost alliterative) suggested Kola has a chance to play on Saturday as does Torreira . I’m relieved that Torreira doesn’t appear to have a massive injury . Hector is on the way back and Ceballos can’t get into the team. I very much doubt that we will make his move permanent in the close season if we have the option to do so. He hasn’t shown consistently good form but he still has time to alter that situation. From comments he has made it looks as if Arteta regards him as a similar player to Ozil , ie a no.10 type.
It’s worth noting that he has altered Ozil’s position to somewhere near an old-fashioned inside right just as he has made AMN an auxiliary defender if Kola goes forward ( and Xhaka tucks in ) . Re OM’s concern about Saka I thought he did very well when he came in and I thought AMN played Zaha superbly on Saturday . If Hector was considered fit AMN could switch sides to replace Kola.
Jagiellonia Bialystok, the Polish club we loaned Iliev to.
Wasn’t he a character in a Mel Brooks movie?
Never mind, that was Max Bialystock. 😉
No, you were right bt8, when they win they are Max “points” Bialystok 🙄
My coats already on.
Ned / TTG. My recollection is that all evening matches were 7.30 pm – very few distractions. Very occasionally if the attendance was much higher than anticipated, the turnstiles for the plebs ( such as myself ) would be overwhelmed with huge queues waiting to get in and the kick off would be delayed. No tickets for the terraces in those days – you had to anticipate if there was going to be a rare full house and get there earlier to ensure getting in. Average attendances late 50s / early 60s would be 30000 – only local derbys would generate full / close to full houses ( 72000 official capacity then but the odd big game I’m sure there would be a few thousand more.
Official attendance at White Hart Lane for the Sheffield Wednesday game in 1961 was 61,205, up on the 45,325 for their previous home game v Preston North End but still not a full house.
And for what it is worth, when Wednesday next came to the capital for an evening game, against Chelsea eleven days later, that was a 7:30pm KO, which knocks my train timetable speculation on the head.
Uply @84.
Max Bialy 1
Minnie Bagel 0.
😀
Ugly/ Ned
The momentous 1971 game at WHL started at 7.30 and was not all ticket . My blood still runs cold when I think how dangerous the situation was that night. Cars were being overturned , people were pinned against walls, many of those queuing for hours didn’t get in, some virtually walked up and were swept in , it was total chaos.
Frank Mclintock told me he nearly had a punch-up with Bertie Mee on the way to the match because several of the players ‘ wives were trapped in the crowds and Frank insisted the coach stopped to pick them up contrary to Bertie’s wishes . My point being was that even in exceptional circumstances everything kicked off at that time .
I couldn’t get in and got home well before the match finished. It was covered sporadically on radio but there was no live TV coverage .
Uply
So sorry it autocorrected to Ugly.
How wrong could they be ?
TTG – your mobile / computer has seen a photo of me and used A R 😉
Likewise we left very early to see that 1971 momentous game to no avail. As you say it was absolute pandemonium with as many shut out as managed to get in – it was amazing no one was killed. My mate who went with me rang me up to say his father fatally collapsed
early the next morning ( he already suffered heart attacks over the previous few years and not connected to the match ).
Chatting to a financial adviser friend of mine tonight.
He mentioned two interesting things.
One that Nketiah will be staying at Arsenal for the rest of this season and two that the deal mooted for the PSG full-back Kurzawa is very likely to happen in the summer and might be acceleratedso that he joins this month. That might free AMN to play in the holding role in midfield . If we flog Mustafi we would look to sign a CB on loan. It’s not Ornstein but he does know the way agents work
Nketiah stays at Arsenal for the second half of the season. The next three games will be one of his best opportunities to get game time with Auba suspended so come on Eddie!
Mmm interesting news about Nketiah. Does this mean he is above Gabby Martinelli in the pecking order and are they bedding him in for next season if Auba or Laca move on in the summer?
eddie and gabigol are the future. both quick, can hold the ball, and score goals. once eddie gets used to arteta’s needs, say during all non-prem runs this spring, he’s going to come good. the only hitch for me is why he wasn’t starting at leeds; if he had a bad attitude, that needs to be addressed (by all accounts he was very well behaved, so i don’t worry about that). if he was carrying knocks, or couldn’t handle the championship rough and tumble, that’s a concern. i find it hard to believe he wasn’t good enough to start. we’ll find out, i guess.
kicks it upfield a la luiz for a willing runner…hoping we can turn the first century here through a fine, arsenal-style move…
A willing but slow runner on the
wing a la Kola picks up the
hopeful ball, bulldozes through
a helmeted full back looking to
nick and whips a low hard cross
to a……
……waiting Laca like. Ball bounces off his knee outwards the lurking….
whose foot slices through the bottom of the ball, spinning it high into the air to meet the head of…
Me!
Ibangemin ….whack.
ttg, i hope you were wearing your scarf when you go that one over the line. another historic moment 🙂
not least that uply truly tabsed it…
Well in TTG, not only do you besmirch my looks you stole the ball that was laid on for me.
Still I claim the even more merited post assist ( formerly known as the Tabs award ) 🙂
Our first 100 posts ! Remarkable .
Re Nketiah he has been extremely poorly handled in my view. After his stunning debut against Norwich Wenger didn’t play him enough and Emery scarcely used him in the first team last season. Amazing that Emery didn’t have a plan isn’t it?
The Leeds loan for Nketiah was a waste of time so I do hope he can get some game time this season ready to be a big part of the squad next season. I imagine Aubameyang will leave and Lacazette May have one more season but we have two other young strikers coming through in John- Jules and Balogun and there is a keen interest in Bowen of Hull .
Apologies chaps I’m an inveterate goalhanger.
And Scruz- I’m always wearing my scarf 😃
No shortage of lurkers 🙂
Well in TTG
Better to have lurked and lost
as Tennyson probably meant
to say…..
ttg, yeah, of course you are. 🙂
i agree re eddie. if arteta gives him the chance, he can be a star. london-born, 20 years old, can score for fun given a team that feeds him…or even if not. he’s a poacher, can score mundane and spectacular goals, and moves well. i really hope arteta uses him well.
ttg@92, it may not be ornstein…but this is: https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/status/1217559730551431169
No problem with Eddie staying
but I’m not sure how he’s ahead
of Martinelli, happy to have both
options
Agree that Saka did ok as an
emergency left back in a couple
of games. I also think Sheff Utd are
the type of team to expose him
in the air with players like Lundstram
and Baldock (?) arriving at the
back post.
Well in ThunderTiny.
Thunderous.
More stylish to make a post assist at the front post or the back post? I suppose you wouldn’t know until post- post assist.
Seems Torreira is a doubt in
fact.
If Holding is fit I’d have thought
he’s an option at left back. Or in
a back 3 with AMN and Saka as
wing backs.
Excellent work, team to reproduce a classic Goonerholic Drinks Ton. Particularly honourable mentions for Scruz for the assist, TTG for the Ton and Uply for a marvellous Tabs.
Well done chaps.
This extract from French Football News about Kurzawa does not make good reading. There is a concern that Joorabchian is becoming exceptionally influential at Arsenal. He is a close associate of Edu and brokered the Luiz deal.
These comments make worrying reading :
“Joorabchian’s outsized influence at Arsenal becoming a bit uncanny, shades of Raiola at PSG in 2012/13 – Layvin Kurzawa is exceptionally injury-prone, criminally unfit & has not been playing regular football for the best part of the last 4.5 years”
Added to the relationship between ‘super-agent ‘ Mendis and Sanllehi I hope we are not being suckered into deals that suit agents and their clients much more than they suit us. Wenger set his face strongly against these relationships but I am led to believe he became very difficult to deal with on transfers towards the end of his tenure . Certainly the recent comments from Dick Law suggest this was the case .
I noticed how few games
Kurzawa seems to start every
season. And that’s in Ligue 1.
It’s always buyer beware on
transfers and if we really let
agents talk us into buying
players that don’t suit us then
we get exactly what we deserve.
Despite the negativity of that piece from FFN the Kurzawa deal looks imminent and Ornstein is suggesting more might happen. We need a big, powerful centre back please , totally injury proof who eats strikers for breakfast
ttg, something like this? might be lacking a bit in footspeed, though.
Wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of a shoulder barge from that fella. Ouch.
Scruz,
He’s perfect could we have two please? Do you have a lab in Berkeley or somewhere that makes them?
TTG@92: The Sun is also saying that we are looking at bringing in Kurzawa this window — so it must be true! He has an injury record that would seem to make him a fit for us (you are ahead of me @115, I see, back drinking forward, if that makes sense.) And Kurzawa was born in Var, which must offer Trev some puns.
He hasn’t played more than 20 league games a season since 2014-15. If he is ‘criminally unfit’ — he missed games last season on account of his fitness — and as he has attitude issues — that Swedish salute — I doubt Arteta will let him in the door.
If Nketiah stays, that will be him, Laca and Martinelli sharing the No 9 duties, with or without Auba. I hope we have some deep cup runs to ensure sufficient playing time for them all.
Scruz: At Leeds, he had to displace Patrick Bamford, who has been a fixture in United’s starting line up for several seasons. It is not as if he went to a club which had a problem at centre forward to solve. Leeds probably wanted him a cover, which might have been a reason for us not to let him go there without rock-solid guarantees of starts and playing time — as TTG alludes @104.
OM@113: Holding has played right back, but I can’t uncover an instance of him playing left back in a back four (as opposed to on the left side of a back three.)
And TTG, well in for our inaugural ton. Kudos to Scruz for the assist and Uply for the Tabs.
Well in for the first ton TTG. Top finishing. Excellent buildup play from OM, Scruz and Uply. Uply’s tabsing was the icing on the cake.
Great stuff all!
Ned,
The first time I saw Holding play
was at left back in an England
youth tournament (Toulon)
about 4 years ago so that’s
probably why the the idea came
to mind.
@scruz
Yes, he’d be an incredible banner
signing for the club.
Might give away a few penalties
though.
i hear he runs hot and cold, too; a beast one minute, then he just seems to, i dunno, shrink from every challenge.
Other clubs would be green with envy 🤢
His control’s improved recently I heard.
And he’d help us avenge some recent
defeats
According to Ornstein we’re
looking to get Kurzawa now
– we’ll have 3 left backs in
March. I suppose Kola is off
in the summer.
Interesting piece on AFTV. You may remember my report from Goodison where most of the travelling support indicated their displeasure with them
https://theathletic.com/1538758/2020/01/17/aftv-giving-fans-a-voice-or-feeding-off-failure/
Remember it well CM1000,
agreed with it then and agree
with it now
Sometimes overlooked, except by the Brazilian girls, was Denilson’s instrument.
The ukulele, I mean.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>