Confession time – on a recent trip to Liverpool I took the opportunity to visit Anfield. I took the stadium tour and found myself envying one particular feature of their history – their achievements in Europe. For the record they have won six Champions Leagues (or European Cups) and three UEFA Cups. They’ve also won four Super Cups and the World Club Cup once. That’s some European pedigree!
Manchester United bemoan their record in Europe. They’ve won the Champions League or equivalent three times, four other European trophies and one World Club Cup. Chelsea have eight European trophies including the Cup with big ears (on two occasions) and one World Club trophy. Even our noisy neighbours over at the Toilet Bowl whom we rightly deride for their lack of silverware have won one more European trophies than we have. Just after the 2015 FA Cup Final as we wended our way back to Marylebone a rather pathetic Villa fan gloated (if you can gloat after losing 4-0!) that we hadn’t won the European Cup and they had.
Arsenal won the Fairs Cup in 1970 and the Cup Winners Cup in 1994. We came an agonising twelve minutes away from winning the big one in 2006 in Paris, a night that was about as excruciating as any I have ever known supporting this great club and we’ve lost four other European finals. I was at most of them. Somehow, it’s harder to take defeat in a foreign final than anywhere else in my experience and the beer is usually MUCH more expensive!
You get the idea? We support one of the true giants of English football, a club with a massive global fan base and an illustrious record of trophy gathering in our home country. But in Europe we languish way behind not only a lot of otherwise much less successful English clubs but also a lot of Europe’s relative minnows. The likes of Schalke, Villarreal, Hamburg and even West Ham, for goodness sake, have a better record!
This article posits some ideas about why this may be and it is to be hoped that the general angst we all experience when we contemplate Europe will dissipate in a few weeks time at Wembley when we eventually triumph to win our first Champions League. But we have a lot of work to do before we secure that very special landmark.
A History Lesson
Of course, statistics can be deceptive. Firstly, until 1993 only the Champions of each country could enter what was known as the European Cup. When it became the Champions League in 1993 runners-up and leading clubs from the major European leagues could also enter. A logical person might feel it should have started off as the Champions League and then morph into the European Cup. In fact it did the opposite!
So, until thirty years ago you only got a shot at the big prize if you won the league. We only won the league three times in that period and when we won it in 1989 English clubs were banned from Europe because of the problems at Heysel before the Juventus/ Liverpool final. Thanks Scousers…. we had an extremely good team then.
Our first attempt in 1971-72 saw us eliminated by a fine Ajax side in the quarter final. Ironically it was a very similar Ajax side to the one we had eliminated two years earlier in the Fairs Cup. I still remember Peter Marinello clean through in the first minute of the second leg and failing to score. George Graham got the winner in the second leg but unfortunately it was for Ajax!
We had to wait until 1991 for a second shot at the prize. We started the competition as favourites and thrashed the Austrian champions 6-0 at Highbury in the first leg of our first game. We then met Benfica and drew at the Stadium of Light. Back at Highbury we saw a collectors item when Colin Pates scored first for us but Benfica came back to score three goals which delighted their manager … one Sven Göran Eriksson. I had the opportunity to discuss the game with George Graham a couple of years later. He felt that he learnt valuable lessons about controlling European ties that night. A few months after he told me that, we triumphed 1-0 against Parma in the Cup Winners Cup Final in Copenhagen. That was George’s last tilt at a European crown with us as he was not in charge a year later when we lost to Real Zaragoza in the Nayim (from the halfway line) final.
The Wenger Years
Even before Arsene Wenger arrived officially at Arsenal he flew from Japan to take charge of a (losing) UEFA Cup tie in Germany. The following year when we won the title we had dropped out of the UEFA Cup very early losing to PAOK Salonika. Had the Premier League had four qualifiers for the Champions League at the end of Wenger’s first season, we would have entered that but in 1998-99 we qualified as PL champions and because of restrictions on capacity at Highbury we played our first two seasons in the Champions League at Wembley. How I loved the 5 am starts to drive to Wembley, park around the local residential roads which closed pre-match and the long drive home after the match. It really wasn’t a good experience in many ways. We failed to qualify from the knockout stages and lost to among others Barcelona, Lens and Fiorentina. In 1999-2000 we dropped into the UEFA Cup and reached the final in Copenhagen against Galatasaray. Copenhagen held very happy memories from 1994 but these were obliterated against the Turks. It was the single most unpleasant day I have ever spent watching football – and I lived through the seventies and eighties. Lunching with friends my daughter was sending messages about where the rioting was currently taking place so that we could navigate our way around the city. The game was a huge disappointment ending defeat in a penalty shootout after a goalless 120 minutes. And then, my return flight was delayed four hours!
What Wenger achieved (and was unfairly pilloried for) was regular qualification for the Champions League. In the first decade of the millennium Arsenal qualified for the latter stages of the competition every time but apart from the solitary Final appearance in 2006 we only progressed beyond the quarter final once, in 2008-09 when we reached the semi-final only to lose to Manchester United. But supporters develop expectations and the feeling was that the club was too preoccupied with simply qualifying for the Champions League gravy train but not committed to winning it. The outlier in 2006 was remarkable. We lost heavily at home to Inter Milan in the group, looked likely to go out when we were struggling to beat Dinamo Kiev only for Ashley Cole to score late on. We went to the San Siro and outplayed Inter in a glorious 5-1 victory and entered the knockout stage. We drew Real Madrid and in the midst of poor domestic form and an injury crisis played a Real team filled with Galacticos and played them off the park. Henry scored one of the great goals in our history in a 1-0 win . That kickstarted an incredible run which saw us draw with Real at home, comfortably defeat Capello’s Juventus over two legs and then defeat Villarreal in a very nervy semi-final where Lehmann’s wonderful last minute penalty save took us to the final in which, ironically, Mad Jens was sent off after ten minutes. Sol Campbell’s header saw us take an unlikely lead which we held until shortly before the end. On two occasions Henry missed great chances and Ljungberg also missed another great chance to clinch the trophy.
The amazing thing about that team was its back four of Eboue, Senderos, Toure and Flamini who set a CL record of fourteen successive clean sheets that still stands. Would you believe those four defenders could achieve that? Much was made of the coaching that Martin Keown gave that unlikely quartet and how effective they became.
Contrast that with the Invincibles who in 2004 were by common consent the best team in Europe. We were eliminated at home by a Chelsea side we had defeated three times that season and had drawn with at Stamford Bridge. If ever an Arsenal team had the quality and opportunity to take the Champions League crown it was in that year.
Since 2010 we have only been beyond the last sixteen once and have suffered a number of shattering defeats (some facilitated by appalling refereeing) to the likes of Barcelona and Bayern Munich. Our last elimination came at the hands of the Germans in 2017 by an aggregate of 10-2. It was increasingly beginning to be felt that Arsenal were waning as a European power, just a part of the line-up but never real contenders.
We failed to qualify for the first time in 17 years in what proved to be Wenger’s last season and although we have qualified for the Europa League in all but one of the subsequent seasons we have only reached one final, in Baku where we were humiliated by Chelsea. Then in 2021, Arteta received some criticism for being outwitted by Emery at the semi-final stage. But this season our home performances back in the Champions League have been outstanding and the sense is this team is on a sharp and positive upward learning curve.
So, What are the Conclusions ?
The Champions League is essential!
One of the modern developments in football is the expectation of the top players. These are the players you need to sign if you hope to compete effectively at home … and in Europe. Can you imagine Declan Rice being willing to sign for a club that is not competing in the Champions League? Similarly would Kai Havertz or Jurrien Timber be interested in a side not in that elite competition? If you want to sign the very best and established top players you must offer them Champions League football and you are unlikely to be able to afford them if you don’t qualify. I’m being told that our Champions League campaign so far will bring in about £90 million for the club. If we go further the rewards will be astronomical. Europa League victory is only worth a fraction of that figure.
European football is different!
One of the benefits of playing in Europe, especially in the Champions League, is that aside from the money and the glamour, playing against different teams from different leagues and against top-class players improves your squad. The two Porto games, which a lot of pundits had suggested were a gimme, were in fact extremely challenging and made for compelling entertainment. Their mid-block disconcerted an Arsenal team that was dismembering Premier League sides in between those fixtures. To triumph in Europe you need durability and tactical flexibility and I am sure Arteta has benefitted from the experience he has had against opposition coaches in the Europa League. It takes a while to assimilate the differences in Europe and we saw how improved the side was in Seville after the defeat in Lens.
It is a degree course in tactical awareness!
Wenger’s detractors claimed that he struggled to match the tactical acumen of the top European coaches. That may have become true as his star declined but I can remember many outstanding Arsenal performances home and away in Europe under Wenger. If you can recruit the right quality of player, European success, even in the Champions League, is accessible but when you reach the knockout stages it becomes a postgraduate degree course in tactical sophistication. Although the Premier League is a very strong division, the Champions League is in an entirely different level. A side new to the challenges will take time to adjust to its level. But I believe Arteta and his coaching team are elite and have the capability to enable Arsenal to challenge for the Champions League trophy .
Ambition!
Revisiting the past brings pleasure and pain but it is increasingly clear to me that with greater ambition Arsenal could have retained their best players and added to them. We could have seen more success in the League in the early 80s and with that success we could have attained greater European success. At that time, it was arguably harder to win the other European trophies than the European Cup. Similarly George Graham was held back relatively speaking and Wenger was naturally prudent in his expenditure but was superb at recognising unpolished gems. The establishment of a wider qualification model has changed the balance of power and created a gravy train that ambitious clubs have to clamber aboard.
Arsenal now seem to have a very intelligent management team and above all owners who have experienced equivalent success in the USA. The impression that they were satisfied with mediocrity has been dispelled. But it is still extremely difficult to compete with clubs financed by nation states.
Serendipity!
I hate Wayne Bridge! He was responsible for eliminating a far superior Arsenal team in 2004. His Chelsea team stumbled against an average Monaco side in the semi-final and one had to feel we would have had a wonderful chance of crowning that special season with the Champions League if we had just got past Chelsea. Nobody could claim Ranieri was a superior tactician to Wenger but on the night and given that we had played an intense FA Cup semi-final the weekend before we came up short.
Squad diversity helps in Europe!
Some excellent players shine more in Europe than in the Premier League. Gabriel Jesùs is a case in point. Some players cope well with the intensity of the Premier League but struggle in a more cerebral environment in the Champions League. A top club needs to encompass both competitions … and that doesn’t come cheap !
Ashburton Grove is a hard place to visit!
We have played four games at home this season and won them by an aggregate of 13-0. We defeated a PSV side carrying all before them in Holland by a 4-0 scoreline and a resurgent Lens by 6-0. Porto players visibly melted faced by a passionate North Bank during the penalty shootout. Don’t underestimate how forbidding it may be to visit North London with the crowd and support we have now.
So how do you succeed in Europe?
If you look at the last ten winners, Real Madrid have won five times and Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Chelsea, Liverpool and Manchester City have one victory each. It took Guardiola, one of the greatest coaches of all time, a long time to win it.
Financial muscle is very important but Liverpool have a great record without being one of the richest clubs. Tradition is important. All of those clubs have a number of appearances in the final. They have the fan base, the quality of squad and, with the exception of Chelsea, the aura of serial winners. That aura takes time to acquire and needs to be supported by a clear process to develop and continually strengthen the club.
Three Premier League clubs have won the competition in the last decade but only one has won both the Premier League and Champions League double in the same season. Looking across the whole span of the European Cup and Champions League competition, although an English club has won the European Cup/Champions League on 14 occasions, the English domestic league and European Cup double has been achieved on only 5 occasions: Liverpool (1976-77 & 1983-84), Manchester United (1998-99 & 2007-08) and Manchester City (2022-23). Meanwhile, Barcelona alone have achieved that double on five occasions, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Ajax three times each and Inter Milan twice, whilst eight other European clubs have won that European/domestic double on one occasion. The intensity of our league may stretch resources more than their domestic league does those of clubs in other countries … but it is possible, and the impact of European success creates a virtuous circle of success with league progression that sustains the attempts to win both competitions.
Runners up in the last decade include Atletico Madrid, Juventus and Liverpool (all twice), Manchester City, Inter Milan, PSG and Tottenham although the latter’s attempt to win expired with a whimper. My conclusions would be that stability of coaches matters, ambition of the club is important and to a degree, so does the belief of the fans. At Anfield they expect to win the Champions League but their resources are no greater than ours. Their success suggests that belief is amply justified.
And, the Champions League winner 2024 is …..
I firmly believe that we are on a very positive path to success and that over the next few seasons we will become ever more credible contenders for the biggest prize of all. I don’t believe that we can win it this season because of the lack of elite squad depth and the inexperience of the squad but I believe we will win it in the next five years if we retain Mikel Arteta. I want to see a trophy wall developing at Ashburton Grove to rival that one at Anfield!
Cheers, TTG. Excellent summation of our less than excellent record in Europe. I am another who thinks it is about time for us to shine on that stage. Let Spring 2024 see us blossom into the flower we have been waiting to see.
Just when you think everything is going swimmingly,
I’m reading that young Saka has withdrawn from the England quad games with an unspecified injury.
Fingers and everything crossed it is not serious.
Precautionary I hope. Now to the article.
Great write-up, TTG, cheers!
I believe we can win it this season, though it will require the planets to align.
At this stage though, if ever I had to choose, I’d rather win the PL first.
Very very disappointing to read that 3 supposed Arsenal supporters have been banned for 3yrs for so called ” tragedy ‘ chanting during our FA cup 3rd round game against Liverpool at the Ems back in early Jan.
I do believe our supporters are usually among the best behaved in the league, unless the regulars in the Bar that attend games, TTG/Countryman et al, are going to advise me differently.
This is the first time [ to my knowledge ] that we have had supporters banned for this vile
baiting of the Liverpool fans.
Hopefully it will be the last.
Clive
I think traditionally our fans have been among the best behaved but there has been a shift in the age groups going to matches following Covid and a new crowd is taking the place of some of the older regulars. Trev, Bath and Btm are amongst those who are able to get tickets less frequently and the average age of the person sitting next to me in the Nirth Bank ( non ST) is about 22. I’m not saying the new generation of fans are ill-behaved but they are very vociferous and the ground resembles a bear pit when we play big games . It’s perhaps inevitable that we will attract some riff raff
Bravo, TTG. A comprehensive sweep of a less-than-stellar page in our history, although, as you point out, fate has not dealt us the best hand. The failure of the Invincibles to win the CL is one of life’s great mysteries.
Also, a tip of the hat to those who allowed some Fergie time for the double ton in the previous drinks.
Thanks TTG for a fine review. As I am a little too young for the Fairs Cup win that win against Parma is our only glorious European victory I’ve seen in 50 years, and I was somewhat skint at the time and couldn’t afford to go. I know, I know, cry me a river and all that but it’s a shocking state of affairs and why if I had Ollie’s choice @4 I would go for the CL.
A belated bouquet to Ned for a fine double hundred 👏👏👏
The Saka injury doesn’t seem too serious fortunately.
I’d never heard the phrase ‘tragedy chanting’ before last week, but now some of our fans have been banned after Man U fans indeed. I am wondering indeed, TTG, whether this is a reflection on society as a whole, youth or whatever. Disconnection from reality? Not enough education?
I did witness lass season some chanting from the so-called Ashburton Army in a certain pub, with use of the Y word, including some fairly clearly antisemitic bits in one chant.
I thought we’d managed to cut out the anti-Semitic chanting, that is disappointing.
The ‘tragedy chanting’ has mainly been a thing between Man Utd and Liverpool supporters as far as I know and I was surprised our fans were involved. Still I don’t attend so I don’t really know, it was just from what I’d read in The Athletic.
Matt,
We’ve debated ad infinitum the Y word on here over the years . Every S***s fan I know seems to relish being part of a fraternity that identify with that word . Some are Jewish, some not . One is an Evangelical Christian yet sees no issues with the use of that word .
It seems that Spud fans are happy to use it to describe themselves , in fact they relish that identity, but don’t like it being used by others to describe them because it becomes pejorative ! I don’t understand that .
If that’s complex revelling in the tragedies of Munich or Hillsborough is just plain wrong . On my visit to Anfield I went to pay my respects at the Hillsborough memorial . The guide seemed most touched that a Gooner wanted to do it. But a minority of mindless idiots will take tribalism too far and the result is what obviously happened in January . Those morons shame our club and shame football .
That’s a magisterial article TTG. One of your best. Congratulations!
Clive @5, in answer to your questions, I cannot recall hearing “tragedy chants” on my travels up and down the land following the Arsenal. Nor do I hear the y word any more. I do still hear some people mindlessly denigrating whole cities, usually Liverpool. “We pay your benefits”, “in your Liverpool slums”, “ you find a dead rat and think it’s a treat “. This saddens me, the constant denigration of a city as full of thieves and ne’er do wells. If I had a pound for every time someone has asked me whether I got my hubcaps nicked when I went to Liverpool or Everton, I’d get my annual petrol bill paid. For the record the only time my car has been damaged when attending a football match was at Old Trafford.
I have many Liverpudlian friends and colleagues. I find them warm, funny and welcoming. I find Anfield very welcoming to visiting supporters (in stark contrast to The Etihad and the London Stadium).
I love terrace humour. Dog’s abuse has no part in it.
Cesc Fabregas has spoken to the BBC website praising Mikel Arteta’s impact at Arsenal, crediting him with removing elements of toxicity, and raising standards across the board. Can’t say I disagree with any of those points. It’s quite an achievement and indicates what an effective manager Arteta has been.
To back up C100 I have recently returned from Liverpool. I found the people extremely friendly . And the cheapest taxis in the country ! My car also wasn’t damaged when I went there years ago
@14,15,17 thanks gents for sharing your experiences.
The y word thinking is similar to ‘gaijin’ in Japan in the 90s. When I first arrived here it was a Japanese word used to describe non-Japanese and was disliked by most gaijin when used by Japanese as it was considered pejorative too. On the other hand, almost 100% of the ‘gaijin’ used it to describe themselves and considered that perfectly ok!
TTG
In the words of the Immortal Joanna Lumley
Absolutely Fabulous.
I don’t know where you find the time.
Like you, I remember mostly with regret, the too few highlights, and the many lowlights of our European adventures down the years.
Dancing on the pitch with my Dad at Highbury after our epic Fairs Cup win in 1970, would be the shining light, but failures aplenty were our regular remit apart from Parma outlier.
My real regret is not so much the CL loss to Barca in 2006, but the loss to Chelsea in the Invincibles season.
As you alluded to, we played an intense semi final of FA Cup the Saturday before the
midweek 2nd leg at Highbury.
What is not very well known is that Arsene wanted to rest some of his players from the FA Cup game, as he considered rightly, that the CL was more important.
But the senior players led by Paddy and Henry cajoled him into letting them play as they didn’t want to miss the game particularly as it was against the old enemy Man Utd.
Plus the other semi was between Millwall and Sunderland, so whoever won our semi basically had 2 hands on the Trophy.
What our players failed to take into account was that the Cup was the only Trophy left for Utd to play for that season.
And for the entire 90 minutes they committed grievous bodily harm against our players with virtually no sanction from the Referee.
They scored an early goal, and through good luck rather than good play, they held on for a 1 nil win.
So to the Chelsea game, who we completely outplayed for the first hour, but only had a single goal from Henry to show for it.
Then mad Jens whose madcap rush outside his area cost us the goal Chelsea scored in the first leg, let a shot that skidded off the damp turf rebound of his chest, and there was Lampard following up to drill in the equalizer.
Cue the Wayne Bridge late winner.
And as Paddy admitted later, the physical battering by Utd on the Saturday came back to haunt us, and in his words ” our legs were gone”
There is no way we would have lost to a very average Monaco in the semi final, that loss for Chelsea was down to Ranieri tinkering with the line up for first leg away which they lost 3-1, and couldn’t overturn that deficit in the 2nd leg.
Does anyone remember who Monaco played in the final that year, ??
The team that ultimately won the CL with a comprehensive 3 nil thrashing managed by a hitherto unknown coach named Jose Mourinho, was Porto.
The ultimate question is whether we would have still finished the league season unbeaten if we had to play 2 intense semi finals and a final in the CL.
I guess we’ll never know, but i sure wish we had had the chance to find out.
A marvellous review, TTG, of our less than glittering European record. I do agree that the intensity of the Premier League, especially over the last 20 years makes the achievement of the domestic league-ECL double more difficult for English clubs than for their European rivals though another way of looking at it is that in the last quarter of a century, only clubs with a disproportionate level of funding compared to their domestic rivals have done so, whether that club is English or Spanish and whether that funding is legitimate or illegitimate, above board or covert.
Clive @19, 2004 was indeed the year we should have won big ears. We were the outstanding club in Europe that year and it’s a damn shame we didn’t. I remember the league game at Highbury, the weekend after that cup SF defeat and midweek catastrophe against the Chavs. Liverpool were the visitors and seemed determined to put a pin into our league aspirations as well when a certain Mr Henry took the game by the scruff and turned it (and the season) completely around. Your question as to whether we would have achieved that Invincible Season with continuing European and FA Cup pressures is a reasonable one but given the quality of the opposition that remained in those competitions, I think that Arsenal team would have had a great chance of a golden treble though perhaps the disappointment and anger at the undeserved exits from the two cups added determination to finish the league season unbeaten. Like you, I would have liked to have seen us try. But, oh dear, did you have to rip the plaster off and tear open the sutures on that still festering wound?
TTG, many thanks for a superb summary of a less than stellar European history.
If defeat can help to make you stronger, we should be striding like giants into Europe over the next few years, as long as the current ethos of improvement and development continues. Like you, I think we have we now have the structure and the willingness to do so and, especially, an elite coach – and manager – in Mikel Arteta.
You mention the stars who have been happy to join the club but, just as importantly, we have been able to retain those developed at home like Saka, Martinelli and Saliba, whose loans and development were carefully managed while he was considered too raw for the Premier League. Massively talented young players like Gabriel and even Odegaard have been taken into the club and given the opportunity and responsibility to grow with us.
If we are going to succeed, it is hopefully going to be following the Liverpool model and not through nation state funding. Given that, it’s hard to see how we could presently be much better placed than we are.
Great article, excellent drinks – thanks again to all in here.
Clive@19: 👏👏👏
Thanks for your comments
Clive @19- great drinks and so nice to have you contributing regularly at present . I totally agree with your conclusions . One tiny amendment would be that Reyes rather than Henry scored before half time ( just before ) .
That United semi and the latter part of the last Chelsea game where we couldn’t respond against a team we owned that season show how tenuous form and rhythm are even for a great team – we saw this post Christmas with those two defeats .
As Bath says it all looked like it was turning to custard that Good Friday against Liverpool but Henry had that superlative second half . I still remember the brilliance of his second goal .
And as Trev says given the nature of our funding we could scarcely be better placed for the future . It may go to custard again but we’ve given ourselves a wonderful chance of success . Can’t ask more than that !
Countryman @15
Thnks for your insights.
Bath @20
Apologies for reviving sour memories.
Re 2006 final, I still haven’t watched a replay of the game, just can’t bring myself to.
As TTG mentioned in his excellent review, we had a couple of gilt edged chances to score the 2nd killer goal, but for once TH14 couldn’t apply the finishing touch.
Arsene to this day is still absolutely convinced that Barca’s equalizer was offside.
Henrik Larsen was the substitute that came on late and turned the game in their favor.
Another little know fact about that game was the decision by Wenger to sub Pires off as the fall guy for the early send off of Jens, caused great grief for Bobby.
His whole family were in the stands that day and he was absolutely gutted that his CL final dream ended after 20 minutes.
It took him years to forgive Wenger, and Pires has said in later years interviews that he will never have a bigger regret in football than that day.
Here is an Interlull quiz question:
Lehmann
Lauren, Campbell, Toure, Cole
Ljunberg, Vieria, Gilberto, Pires
Bergkamp, Henry
would by common consent comprise the Invincibles.
How many times did that team play together in the Invincibles season?
As they say in the clickbait headlines, the answer will suprise you.
Here’s a clue:
Amazing statistic Ned- and a great video. Of interest to people who like intelligent discourse on Arsenal and what made that side great
I was nowhere near the answer- out by a factor of ten! But I did know we only had twelve scorers all season and only two players got into double figures .
I’m very nostalgic about that team !
Thanks Ned for the link.
Like the presenter I loved that attack, course it helped that
we had God and the best player in the world. I’d forgotten
Aliadiere, I will go off and see whatever happened to him
Aliadiere went off to Middlesbrough in 2007 after a few mostly on loan or injury hit seasons with us, which I remembered for a few good days in the League Cup once I had read them. The lowlight was a very brief spell on loan at Celtic which ended cos the odious little toad Strachan wouldn’t play him. After Middlesbrough AW found him a gig at L’Orient where he did well by all accounts, two seasons in the Qatar Stars League and retirement in 2018.
Nice to read that AW tried his best to look after him and they are apparently still in touch,
a decent man AW, though we all knew that anyway.
Thanks Ned for the link to that highly entertaining segment on the Invincibles. 15 minutes well spent.
Ned @26, thanks for that excellent link.
And,….
Kai Havertz scores again!
And apparently had an outstanding game as a free moving forward.
Belated recognition for an excellent pre- pre-assist in the previous drinks by Uply for the rare double ton, even as it brought in the refereeing uncertainty as it invariably does in the modern game.
Cheers TTG! Excellent read. Going through our bittersweet journey in Europe revive many memories. Those many misses against Barcelana (Henry&Ljungerg then Brendtner) and that goal against Zaragoza are hurt the most. But there are the heartwarming goals from Arshavin and Fabregas… and the wins against Real and Juve…
I want us badly to do well in the CL. I believe with Arteta at the helm we are getting ready for this challenge.
COYG
I’m very late to the party, TTG. Excellent read.
Month from hell coming up
31/3 City away
3/4 Luton home
6/4 Brighton away
9/4 Bayern home
14/4 Villa home
17/4 Bayern away
20/4 Wolves away
23/4 Chelsea home
28/4 Spurs away
Shiver me timbers
Advance warning that there is a tube strike scheduled for 4th May when we are scheduled to play Bournemouth at 3pm. It seems unlikely to me that if the game is likely to be significant that it will stay at that time and possibly may be moved to another day.
All fixtures are currently scheduled for 3pm Saturday .
Liverpool are playing the Spuds at Anfield and Citeh are at home to Wolves . I hope a bit of pragmatism applies in adjusting the fixtures . I estimate about ten fixtures at home this season have been affected by strikes or breakdowns on the tube or trains .
Clive @35
The situation is even worse than you show. After the Spuds play on 13 April they have a 15 day break before they play us. In that time we will play four other games including Bayern away . That is a ludicrous advantage to take into a NLD . Man City face a similar problem in that Brighton have a long break before they play them in April .
There’s a very nice article in the Daily Telegraph, perhaps soon to become the Abu Dhabi Advertiser, on ‘Wor Bob’ (£):
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/03/25/bob-wilson-interview-arsenal-sir-alex-ferguson-brilliant/
Bath
Thankyou for attaching that article about Bob. I’ve been sending him short texts to check he is ok. He’s not really ok because the death of Megs hit him like a sledgehammer but he is following the team very closely .
I shall send him a more detailed note today. We were discussing the Arsenal dining club with Megs before I zoned out with my own problems but I will try to catch up with him .
His comments on Saka are very interesting
Bath@38: thanks for the link. An uplifting read with which to start the week.
Declan Rice will be England’s Captain tomorrow night against Belgium.
Excellent link Bath
And a great interview,
Bob is an intrinsic part of the fabric of our great Club, and deservedly so.
Ned @25/26
Another excellent link about the Invincibles on 442.
and out of inerest Ned, can the Monks advise how long it has been since 2 Arsenal players have been among the first names on the England team sheet on a regular basis.
TTG @37
That reassigned Chelsea game on the Tuesday before the NLD, does not help.
Hard enough playing 1 tough local derby, let alone 2 in 5 days.
We will need all our players to step up, so crucial that Tomi/Partey/Jesus are back in the squad and can provide cover from the bench, or play a starting role as they reach full fitness.
We have survived ‘ The Ides Of March ‘, let’s hope we can rise to the occasion again, and flourish in the big battles to come in April.
That would make him the first Arsenal player to captain the England’s men’s team since David Seaman in 1997, I believe.
Clive@42: You probably have to go back to Seaman and Adams in the ’90s.
Looks like a half-ton on the horizon…
*kicks ball out of bed*
Trips on ball that mysteriously came flying out of a bed…
Checks ball carefully before toe-punting it 75 yards upfield….
Stops to mention Martin Keown captained England once…….
Boom!
Is it still the interlull?
Nicely boomed Bt8 and from my football withdrawal symptoms I do believe it is still the damned interlull
Well in for the half-ton, bt8.
Well struck, bt8.
One last round of injury worries tonight.
Rice, Saliba, Zinchenko, Kiwior, Odegaard, Trossard, and, interestingly, potentially all our goalkeepers! What are the odds on all three getting injured? :-O
Fortunately Deschamps doesn’t see Saliba as a first choice, Southgatian of him I know but handy for us. Hope he doesn’t pick him again tonight.
Also I read a story that Rice wants to work with Bukayo and Rammy to change Benny Blanco’s mind about dumping the national team. Methinks the Ben is not for turning.
Still, it’s nice for Sir Declan (the knighthood is simply a matter of time) to be captain as I think it makes him happy and happy Declan, happy life as far as I’m concerned.
Matt, even more unfortunately as DD doesn’t see Salba as first choice, he’s starting tonight for the Chile friendly.
I see that Anthony Taylor, from Wythenshaw, greater Manchester, is the referee for our game against Manchester City on Sunday.
The case against Chavski is building. As ever, Arsene knew exactly what was going on when he talked of “financial doping” in the naughties:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/25/marina-granovskaia-role-chelsea-alleged-financial-breaches-under-investigation-premier-league
C100 @57, that, sir, is outrageous.
So are the financial shenanigans at the Bus Stop as outlined in bath’s link @58.
Sadly I am unsurprised about Taylor or Chavski’s shenanigans or the PGMoLs.
Pity Saliba is playing Ollie but I suppose it makes sense to Deschamps.
A couple of familiar faces in the Top 10 goals of Euro qualifying video on the link below
https://www.uefa.com/european-qualifiers/news/0279-1635c1adf4c0-831ffc150fff-1000–euro-2024-play-offs-how-they-work-state-of-play/
What the gentleman of the bar said at 59 and 60.
…which is not to say the other gentlemen of the bar are anything else
Zinny will come back to the club a happy man after Ukraine beat Iceland in playoff game to make Euro finals in summer this evening.
Kiwior in extra time with Poland against Wales in another playoff game for their place in finals.
Fingers crossed.
And after a nerve wracking penalty shootout, Jakob joins Zinny in the Euro finals.
And has Woj, formerly of this parish, to thank for it.
In more worrying news,
Big Gabi is listed on the Premier league injuries website as having
” Achilles tendon pain ”
While Saka apparently arrived in England camp with a hamstring problem, and returned to the Club pretty much starightaway.
On the bright side for City game at weekend,
Walker lasted 10 minutes in England friendly against Brazil before limping off with a muscular problem, and Stones lasted 10 minutes in game against Belgium this evening, before limping off with muscle discomfort.
So I make that a 2 – 2 draw.
Be interesting to see if all 4 line up on Sunday.
But given our horrendous April schedule, if you include City game on 31st March, we have 9 games in 28 days., it is difficult to see us surviving that without a few players being in the red zone at some stage, so back up players become more vital.
No time to think or blink.
There will be very little training, it will just be rest and recover on repeat.
Liverpool and City have the same schedule, although I would argue that their league games are a bit less difficult then ours.
I was taken to task some time ago for suggesting that a preponderance of PGMOL refs are based in the North West . The situation isn’t quite as bad now but Taylor is from Greater Manchester, Tierney is from Salford , Kavanagh is also from Greater Manchester . Jones , Bankes and Bond are from the North West and Gillett who is from Australia is a self-confessed Liverpool fan. There are no referees from the South- East or London yet there are eight PL clubs in that area . The only Southern based ref is Hooper who is from the South West .
Three Citeh defenders were injured in the international break in games that they all started . Saka was withdrawn before the matches as was Gabriel. Both are expected to start on Sunday . So I’d say we were in a slightly better place than them
In other news Charles Watts has let it be known that we are just about to announce Nwaneri’s first pro contract ( at age 17). Lewis- Skelly has already signed . But will these lads play ?
I find it odd that Walker / Stones both lasted 10 minutes and both limped off. However, I will try not to be paranoid.
Pleased for Zinny, Jakub and even Woj. Doesn’t Bielik make the squad these days?
Sad for Mavro and DaSilva to get so near and yet….
I was just reading that Cashley was inducted into the PL Hall of Fame automatically.
You can also vote for two more entrants from a list of 15. As the list includes Sol and
Cesc it wasn’t too difficult to decide.
Just in case anyone wanted to vote….
https://www.premierleague.com/hall-of-fame/nominees?state=success
When I suggested @49 that Martin Keown was the last Arsenal player to captain England, I was wrong. It was apparently Sol in 2005 against the US.
Matt @73, thanks for the link. Votes submitted.
So Kyle Walker, who was OUT for Sunday is now 50-50 following a scan of his hamstrings.
Expect similar, unsurprising news of John Stones soon.
My flabber is utterly gasted, Trev!
OM@71: Beilik last played competitively for Poland in the Qatar World Cup. He hasn’t even made the Birmingham City matchday squad of late.
Of others formerly of this parish on the halfstep of heartbreak, Aaron Ramsey is another who didn’t make it to what would likely have been his last international tournament.
Oh, thanks Ned, I didn’t realize his stock had fallen so far even at Birmingham. Perhaps he was traumatized by Rooney’s stupidity.
I’d forgotten about Rambo. To be honest I wasn’t sure if he was still playing!
Anyway, I assume he is not fit as he didn’t even come on as a sub in a game
like that. I do remember reading somewhere that he wasn’t retiring internationally
at the same as Bale in order to help ease the squad transition but you’d suspect, as
you wrote, that will be that for him.
Rambo is at Cardiff City, his boyhood club (he is from Caerphilly just up the road). He has barely played this season because of injuries (knee, then calf). I suspect he was on the bench for both of Wales’ Euro play-off games for moral support as much as anything. The wheels seem to have come off his career after the contract kerfuffle with us. He never really clicked at Juve. Then it was a half-season loan at Rangers, a free to Nice for a year and now back home, but 33 and in the Championship.
What Steven Reid of Forest is reported to have said to referee Paul Tierney after the latter incorrectly awarded the ball to Liverpool after a break in play, leading to Liverpool’s injury time game winner: “it’s the same every week, you [expletive].”
I can’t count the number of times I have wanted to tell Tierney the same, but it’s a good thing in disciplinary terms that nobody at Arsenal was involved. The two points that it helped Liverpool get could help them to win the title of course.
Would we want to go into Sunday’s game with three defenders doubtful ? It’s a big risk to play them all in a game of that importance . That’s the dilemma facing Citeh .
We did rest our three injured players completely . I wonder what Citeh feel about that ? As far as I know they only withdrew De Bruyne
TTG@82, Frankly, I don’t care what Manch115teer Cheaty or Pep think about that. They have allegedly taken multiple liberties with the financial rules that have transformed them over the last 15 years from a basket case to a monster sweeping all before them and denied culpability and delayed due process while continuing to hoover up trophies. They deserve only opprobrium and I have absolutely no sympathy for any reverses they experience on the pitch. They cannot be expelled from the league soon enough.
Last night I watched the Wales game on YouTube in Welsh. It was great that the punditry was all in Welsh. I thought the ref had an excellent game and was almost invisible. Shame we can’t say the same of all our incompetent/ cheating Cheshire refs.
Kiwior looked very comfortable at the back passing and controlling the ball with ease. Long balls were excellent. Didn’t look like he raised too much sweat despite his 120 minutes. He will be fine if picked for Sunday.
Bath
I totally agree about that . As you know I think they are going to reap the whirlwind and I hope it is soon.
My comments related to what I’m seeing all over the Goonerverse which is suggesting that Citeh are playing a game by alleging players are injured who aren’t . That smacks to me of panic. We’ve beaten them twice with them fielding a very strong side and we can beat them again whoever plays on Sunday . I’d rather we beat their best side so that they don’t have any excuses . I’d be surprised if they were silly enough to risk all three injured players in a big game at this stage of the season
@84 good to know about Kiwior, I would start him ahead of Zin or Tomi next game. They just haven’t been playing enough to be thrown in for such a big game.
SP@84: I agree that the ref in the Wales-Poland play-off had a fine game, except for the second yellow for Mepham right at the end. The challenge barely merited being called a foul, let alone a yellow.
Kiwior looked like a thoroughbred who couldn’t quite believe he was among so many donkeys. He didn’t need to break a sweat to still look like one of the most accomplished players on the field.
Thanks Ned. I forgot all about the sending off as it happened right at the end of the game. I guess it could have given Wales an advantage in the pens if they had gone to 10 each.
Anyway it was the only interesting game in the last two weeks so thank fully we can get back to preparing for a game we cannot afford to lose. I hope Martinelli is there because an on form Martinelli really puts the shits up C115.
Ethan Nwaneri has signed his first professional contract this month,
welcome to the ranks of the salaried Ethan.
As Welch once wrote « if you liked school, you’ll love work »
Course he was being cynical as is his wont but if I was Ethan
I would love my work
That of course should be Irvine Welsh, not Welch, as that was Raquel
I would have loved to work with Raquel Welch – however they spelt-it 🤣
Much as I like somme of Irving Welsh’s work, I would have preferred to work with Raquel Welch (in her prime). Did she write anything?
How will we develop Nwaneri? I don’t wish to pour cold water on potentially great news but a few years ago we were eulogising about Charlie Patino just as a few years earlier we were hugely optimistic about Gedion Zelalem .
Let’s hope he is a Fabregas rather than a Zelalem and we either use a loan productively or get him involved actively in the squad asap. I’m sad that we are likely to lose ESR but there I think injuries have played a huge part . But we do need to get these lads engaged with the first team or we will find young superstars will not sign pro contracts or choose Arsenal.
If I currently had a 16 year-old son ( I’m pretty certain I haven’t) , who was mega-talented I think I’d suggest they go to somewhere like Southampton or Ipswich or Brighton rather than sign for one of the big clubs that may be unwilling to blood them
The numbers in this article, both the team’s compared to last season, and Declan’s individual numbers this season, are looking really good.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68629840
Bath,
After an in-depth investigation I can report that Raquel wrote two books and an episode of a tv series……
Matt, I too would quite like to do in in depth investigation of Raquel Welch.
TTG@94
I think your comment is fair rather than pessimistic. As we know, for every Saka there are a great many who don’t make it at The Arsenal. This season we have seen Declan, Kai and lately Jakob find places in the first team – just shy of 200 million quids worth of signings.
However, we have also seen Eddie, Reiss and ESR sitting on the bench nearly every week they have been fit. You have to be better than other top class players to get a start (or take your chance in an injury crisis) and we have to be realistic about that.
Punts the ball over the top of the full back the reaches the speedy winger…….
Someone had to do the hard yards Uply, fortunately I volunteered myself first 😃
Oh it hits the back of my head while I was looking the other way but in it goes and they all count!!
Well in for the ton Matt. None of this fannying around backwards & forwards keeping possession, one ball over the top and smash into the net. Simples.
Well in Matt. Raquel and Uply getting it on in the assists I see
Thanks gents, I was just standing around in the penalty box a la Welbz and all of the sudden the ball woz in the net.
On a more serious note, I had no idea this was a fellow gooner as I don’t follow Blogs on Twitter at all. Anyway, the link to Blogs words on Evan Gershkovich is linked
Well in for the ton, OM.
Thanks, too, for posting the link to Blog’s piece about Evan Gershkovich, a reminder that for all the nonsense in the UK red tops and piffle from the pundits, there are still serious journalists out there doing important — and dangerous — work.
TTG@94: Fair points all. The glass-half-full view would be that Arteta has learned a lot from Pep about blooding youngsters gradually. He was slow to put Martinelli in the team regularly, despite the clamour from the peanut gallery for him to do so, and that paid off handsomely, as did the loan spell for Saliba, when many were suggesting we sell a youngster who looked as useful on a football field as a gangling giraffe. He also has a lot of youngsters training regularly with the first-team squad (although I will concede that when he puts them on the bench on matchdays, they tend to stay there). He will shepherd Nwaneri cautiously.
The glass-half-empty view would be that only generational talents make the breakthrough from the Academy to the first team at elite clubs. As good as Eddie, Reiss and ESR are, they are not that (OK, an always-fit ESR, possibly). The ask is not only for a teenager to make the huge physical and mental step up from age group to senior football but also to displace someone who is, in all likelihood, a top international. Expectations have to be tempered by that brutal reality.
Very well summed up Ned. I agree entirely yet it was interesting in my trip to Anfield recently that they are so excited about a new generation of stars – Bradley, Kelleher,Quansah, Danns etc who have been blooded and not found wanting . They suggested that Arsenal like Liverpool had to look at youth development differently ‘ because they didn’t cheat’ ( ie break the rules to bring in superstars ).
Youth development is harder than ever although Bukayo is a shining light that shows what is possible . But Reuell Walters is out of contract in the summer. He has been on the bench over 20 times and never stepped on the pitch. Arteta preferred to use Cedric even in Eindhoven in a dead rubber . It will be hard to convince him his future is with Arsenal . Maybe the reality is that you sell them on and insert a buyback clause if they come good ?
Today ESPN+ published an article titled: “Is Harry Kane cursed? An investigation into the world’s best trophyless star”
I don’t have a subscription to ESPN+ but I’m guessing the article is fairly short, something like, “He spent most of career playing for the Spurs. Investigation complete.”
Well in for the ton, Matt.
Those words are from Andrew Allen, not blogs, though helpfully also linked to by blogs on today’s edition.
Arteta said “there is a chance” Bukayo Saka, Gabriel Martinelli and Gabriel will all be fit for Sunday’s game.
More than a chance, if you ask me. There is a “chance” that Saka, Martinelli and Gabriel will score the goals in a 3-0 victory but don’t let that steer your wagering.
TTG@108: This season, Liverpool’s promotion of youth has been forced by injuries rather than philosophy, although it has worked out OK for them.
Just looked at the first match against City and the obvious probable difference is that neither Saka or DeBruyne played. Also, Nketiah started while both Martinelli and Havertz came off the bench and scored the winning goal. Will be interesting to see the starting 11 for each team.
Ned
I agree to a certain extent but during our FA Cup tie with them they brought on youngsters at a key time of the game, quite a brave decision and one that worked well. And lest we forget they put seven past us in the FA Youth Cup this season . Youngsters like Quansah have been playing a lot this season and Bradley looks like a real star . I sense they have a determination to use their youngsters and of course they have the Europa League which enables them to blood them in accessible competition. It’s hard to chuck them into the Champions League .
Thus far this season we blooded Sagoe Jr in the League Cup at Brentford and Nwaneri had a brief cameo at 6-0 up at West Ham . I’m not sure if Cozier- Duberry’s people for instance might view his situation at Arsenal as the best one for their client with two wide men like Saka and Martinelli in place . Yet we are apparently being linked with ( tge injury prone ) Neto at £80 m. Could ACD save us that investment if we put faith in him?
>>>>>>>