We like to take the temperature among Holics at key points in the season and often reveal quite a division of opinion. But perhaps, not surprisingly, the consensus among Arsenal fans about the campaign so far is almost universally positive, although it is still interesting to get insights from some of our finest. Not all Holics accept my invitation to participate in these round robin discussions which is a pity. It is good to canvass opinion and we have gained perspectives from varied vantage points on what has transpired so far. My thanks go to the ubiquitous C100, the Antipodean view from Noosa, the polymath that is Ned, the keen follower that is Sancho Panza and the seasoned observer that is Uplympian. Gentlemen, we thank you for your excellent insights and appreciate your participation.
We began with the obvious question
What are your feelings about the season so far?
C100: How can you not be thrilled and delighted? We look the real deal and I am enjoying every single minute.
Noosa: Got to be happy with the current position. Of the non-wins, Liverpool should have been a draw (or a win if we had taken the initiative earlier), City parked the bus but we kept going for a draw which was gutsy and Sunderland played better than I thought but our defending let us down for once. Well, twice actually.
Ned: It is going as it must if we are to win the league, but it still needs to continue like this for a long, long time. In recent seasons, the champions have usually lost only three or four games, which suggests we can only afford to lose a couple of our remaining 28 matches. It’s a tall order that will test our (fans’) patience and nerves. Like all champions, we will need the Gods of good fortune to smile on us at crucial moments. On the bright side, Arteta has more quality and squad depth than ever before, probably more than any Arsenal manager has had, and this should be one of the greatest Arsenal teams ever. At the same time, the Premier League and the Champions League have never been more competitive. This Arsenal team could end up winning the quadruple — or with nothing, and the margins, as Arteta constantly reminds us, are small. Like rowing the Atlantic, it is the scale of the achievement that is to be admired, not the flair with which it is carried out. Yet, if not now, then when?
Uply: I have found the season so far very satisfactory. The past 3 years we have been very close to collecting trophies but not close enough (for reasons well known). I see a steely mindset emanating in the players that enough is enough and this year trophies will be won – no ifs, no buts!
SP: Everything is above and beyond where I had hoped for after 10 games played plus the cup games. Only letting in three paltry goals is amazing and a tight fisted defence is, as we know the bedrock to any campaign. If we had had a leaky goals against column our points total would probably be 5 or 6 less than it actually is. The defensive play from all over the pitch is allowing us to win games by a single goal and lessening the impact of the injuries to the front line. We have 4 more points off the teams we played last year, and we have 7 more points after 10 games than we did last year. Injuries are mounting though and it would be a shame to lose momentum because of them.
TTG note: If we had uncovered a well of disgruntled feelings it would suggest Arsenal fans are never satisfied. Holics are known for their balanced views and these were very much to the fore in these comments. As we entered the season there was the usual uncertainty about whether we could reproduce another title challenge, would the new players gel and perform and we faced a very difficult early programme. So far we have come through well.
Who have been the outstanding players as far as you are concerned?
Ned: The strength of this team lies in it being much more than the sum of its parts. It would be unfair to single out individuals, but three goals conceded so far indicates that the defensive unit has been exceptional.
Uply: The whole squad have been outstanding so it’s difficult to choose who has impressed most but I will go with:
Jurrien Timber – he has evolved into a world class fullback. No one gets the better of him week in week out and his attacking prowess has come on leaps and bounds.
Big Gabby – what an absolute monster at both ends of the pitch, he is our set piece king.
Martin Zubimendi – he has settled into the EPL without a hitch (not an easy task). He is master of the midfield and is as accomplished as we hoped he might be.
SP: Timber, Gabriel, Rice and Zubi have been immense. Others are not far behind. Everyone is putting in brilliant performances.
Noosa: From a team perspective, every individual picked has been outstanding in their own way.
Notably individually, Rice has been exceptional, Zubimendi has slotted in and improved the team, Gyökeres has worked extremely hard and will get better, Madueke looked really good before his injury. Gabriel has been a monster in both defence and attack.
C100: So many to choose from! Very honourable mentions to Jurrien Timber and Riccardo Calafiori. Honourable mentions to Martin Zubimendi and Leo Trossard. But the two outstanding players so far this season have been Gabriel and Declan Rice. I find it impossible to separate them. They are the heartbeat of the team.
TTG: Teams who have only conceded three goals and are leading the league by six points tend to throw up a number of outstanding performers but it is clear that so far a majority of our players are shooting the lights out.
Of our eight signings in the close season who has been the standout performer?
Ned: In terms of raising the team’s level, it has been Martin Zubimendi so far. At the end of the season, I suspect we will be saying that it was signing Victor Gyökeres that made the difference in winning silverware, but Eberechi Eze will have provided the magical memories. Cristhian Mosquera will turn out to be an inspired long-term signing.
C100: I have been very pleased with the progress of Gyökeres. But the player who has fitted in seamlessly is Zubimendi. He is world class, a Swiss watch of a player.
SP: Zubi obviously but no one has stunk the place out. Mosquera, what a player! Eze will start to click soon. Viktor also. I expect Nørgaard to play more and be very effective. I loved the Noni signing and can’t wait to see more of him. Kepa looks a solid keepa. Hincapié looks far from hincapiéble.
Uply: Whoever determined our 8 summer signings deserves the utmost praise – there’s not one that disappoints. Again the choice of who is the standout performer is selecting from a box of riches. My choice may be left field but I am going for Christhian Mosquera – most of us probably thought “who?” when he was announced but he has stepped in and deputised for both Big Willy & Big Gabby without any noticeable drop off in our defensive capability – that is some accolade for a 21yr old with no EPL experience.
Noosa: I haven’t yet mentioned Eze who is yet to really show his best and may prove to be the standout. I have no doubt that he will.
TTG: Andrea Berta can take a bow thus far because his diligence and industry in the summer built on the two previous summer windows which brought top players to the club. Personally, I think Zubimendi has been superb and Mosquera a nice surprise but all of our additions have been extremely welcome additions.
How do you feel about a temporary move while the stadium is expanded? Would you prefer to move to
Wembley?
The London Stadium?
The Toilet Bowl?
Twickenham?
Any other suggestion?
C100: I look on this scenario with absolute horror. Wembley and Twickenham would be very difficult for me, given that I attend every home game. Playing at the Spurs ground is unthinkable. The easiest journey by far is the London Stadium. But it’s an absolute disaster of a stadium for atmosphere, the stewards are Nazis (I suppose we could use Arsenal stewards) and I hate it. How about we don’t do this?
Uply: The thought of having to temporarily move away from N5 is highly undesirable but may be unavoidable .
Wembley Stadium: too many bad memories (champions league matches). Travelling logistics awful.
The London Stadium: an awful soulless stadium. Travelling logistics barely acceptable.
The Toilet Bowl: just no, never, ever – they are the old enemy.
Twickenham: a good stadium (I have enjoyed many rugby internationals there), travelling logistics passable but may not be feasible as the London Borough of Richmond have strict limits on events there due to local resident pressure. I expect the RFU could be very supportive though as their finances are in deep manure.
Noosa: I don’t think we should need one. Leaving Highbury, perhaps for understandable reasons, adversely affected the club and team performance for a very long time. If additional revenue is the only driving force, then every avenue to raise it at the Emirates must be explored and a way must be found.
If we did have to move, none of the names mentioned would work for me for a variety of reasons, most of which have been already noted in previous drinks.
SP: Wembley is the only serious contender out of that list. I doubt whether the expansion will amount to much and require any temporary move away. Not in my lifetime anyway.
Ned: None of the above, if at all possible. Twist my arm, and I will say move up the Seven Sisters Road for the duration, even if it means a peg on the nose. Using Wembley or sharing the London Stadium would be like playing in a mausoleum. Logistics disfavour Twickenham or any other west London ground, such as Stamford Bridge. Limited capacity would put the kybosh on Craven Cottage, the G-tech stadium and Loftus Road. I wonder if Lord’s or the Oval could accommodate football matches. The Oval did stage the first FA Cup Final.
TTG: I share C100’s reluctance to consider this. It is a big logistical challenge but as a man whose trains run through Stratford I have a clear favourite!
Should Arteta ever be tempted away who would you envisage ought to be our next manager?
SP: I guess most people would look no further than the chaps at Bournemouth and Palace. I’m always slightly dubious of favouring this type of manager who has no experience of managing a team that dominates possession. They need to move on from their comfort zones. Frank Thomas is going to be a better manager for being at Tottenham as will Amorim at United, but not a lot. I think we should go for a Billy Big Bollocks type like Alonso or Enrique or even Kompany. Being the biggest club in the World after Arteta’s reign, who would say no to the Arsenal?
Ned: I expect Arteta to leave around the 10-year mark, recognising the risk of late-stage Wenger syndrome if he stays longer. Thus, one more contract extension after the current one that expires in summer 2027. I also have a hunch that it won’t be for another coaching role; he seems to be a person who can succeed at anything he sets his mind to. If he leaves the club in as good a state as I hope and expect he will, then we should have our pick of the game’s elite coaches, depending on who is contractually available. The other succession issue will be finding a replacement that can adapt to and evolve the strong culture that Arteta has imposed on the club. The Klopp/Slott transition shows the dangers. We could well look internally to someone Arteta grooms as a successor. If that turns out to be Gabriel Heinze, remember you heard it here first. If not, forget I ever mentioned it.
Noosa: Arteta has some way to go yet before his project is finished. Nobody managing in PL currently comes even close so perhaps a foreign manager? Nobody comes to mind right now and I hope it doesn’t need to for some time.
Uply: Should Mikel leave the club (perish the thought) the most suitable replacement would be his fellow Basque, Andoni Iraola (currently manager at Bournemouth). He is tactically astute, continually develops new players as the stars are sold on and has a persona that fits perfectly in representing the culture of our club.
C100: I don’t want to see Arteta go. Ever! But if he were tempted away, after 6 Premier League Titles and 6 Champions League Cups, I would like Xabi Alonso.
TTG: This is a question none of us want to consider although other blogs seem keen to push anti-Arteta agendas . My choice would be Iraiola based on what I have seen since he took over at Bournemouth.
Do you sense an anti-Arsenal agenda in the media that you read or are we paranoid about pundits not liking us?
SP: I don’t really know as I don’t give any pundits or football journalists the time of day. Pundits will always favour their own clubs I suppose and they will have a willing audience to criticise other teams who they see as a threat. Most, if not all of them are, in the words of the great football philosopher Danny Dyer, complete melts.
C100: For sure. But t’was ever thus. I don’t let it bother me. As the Millwall fans used to say, “Nobody likes us. We don’t care!”
Uply: Over the years there has been a certain negativity towards our club by sectors of the media ranging from jibes such as “The Bank of England club”, the temerity to employ a foreign manager using new foreign ideas such as diet, training methods etc (Arsene Wenger), “they don’t like it up ‘em, soft southerners” with no calling out of the thuggery endured by our players at the time. The nature of journalism / punditry has changed these past few years with click baits being the main driver. This requires sensationalism and there is an unlimited supply of low intelligence ex-players who excel in this as they try to remain relevant in their post playing careers. There is no club immune from this nowadays but some receive much more negative coverage than others (The Arsenal on one hand and the Scousers on the other).
Ned: All fans believe the media is biased against their club. Some research indicates that all Premier League clubs receive net negative press, and this is more pronounced for smaller clubs compared to the Big Six. However, I haven’t found scientifically credible studies of bias against individual clubs. Thus, we have to fall back on anecdotal evidence. I would argue that the bias has become stronger against London clubs since the national broadcaster, the BBC, moved its sports department from London to Manchester. This could reinforce both implicit and cognitive biases, such as confirmation bias, especially against Arsenal because of the BBC and Sky employing pundits like Neville, Carragher and Keane, for whom Arsenal was a major rival during their playing days. Add in social media, which promotes divisive punditry, and the bias is exacerbated. The tribal nature of fandom further intensifies perceptions of bias. That said, just because you are paranoid, it doesn’t mean they aren’t after you.
Noosa: Media want customers and click bait is now the default option for most of them so not worth bothering with. Bloggers are sometimes better but the only one I read as a matter of course is, of course, Goonerholics.
We don’t see many of the English pundits in Australian coverage but those I know of aren’t usually worth listening to, particularly any ex-Liverpool player who still hate Arsenal for Anfield 89 – yes, that’s you Stevie Nichol!
If there is an anti Arse agenda – win the league and/or big ears and shut them all up for a least a short time!
TTG: Much wisdom distilled here. Early in my Arsenal supporting career my Dad sat me down and explained ‘Son, you either love Arsenal or you hate them‘ That was in the nineteen fifties and little has changed. If we win the league we will be the most unpopular side in history. Do we look bovvered?
Finally, the estimable Sancho Panza added a bonus question
SP Bonus question: Would you call yourself knowledgeable about Arsenal or football in general?
No. Sorry to have wasted your time. I know nothing and am rightfully bottom of the predictathon.
TTG: Sancho has been too hard on himself but the Predictathon is proving a fascinating competition again! Many thanks Ned for your super work in running it.
Share your thoughts in the Drinks.
Heads up, Holics.
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Highly astute and entertaining comments above. It seems that Sancho Panza knows more than he admits, so surely must be guilty of something. A Predictathon challenge to my relegation-threatened cohort on this side of the pond: we must pay closer attention the remainder of the season so as to avoid missing the fireworks!
Thanks for pulling that together, TTG. There are many wise heads in this bar (wisdom being defined as having the same view as I do). The collective picking out of Timber, Rice, Zubimendi and Big Gabbi as the first among equals seems about right.
To those on the left-hand side of the pond, note that the Boston contingent is in the top six in the Predictathon.
Big Gabbi crocked playing for Brazil and Calafiori sent home from italy’s training camp as he is not fit enough for selection. Damn interlull!
Good Lord! Sensible, well argued, coherent responses ! What do these people think they are doing? It’s outrageous.
Let’s put to bed the fallacy that there is a conspiracy against us. Yellows and tpreds for things no other clubs is penalised for?
Anyone want to buy a bridge?
I draw this to the attention of the bar, without comment:
Donald Trump has pardoned 88-year-old British billionaire Joe Lewis, the former owner of Tottenham Hotspur football club, who pleaded guilty to insider trading in the US last year.
https://apnews.com/article/tottenham-soccer-joe-lewis-pardon-trump-britain-e78c382f9035ddfc4d35594b630a1613
Thanks for collating TTG.
Much to agree with amongst the various views
and thanks for sharing everyone. I expect Captain Ode to
be the next Arsenal manager from around 2040!
More evidence that the regular visitors to this virtual hostelry are amongst the most thoughtful, grounded and sensible people with whom you could want to converse. Many other types of ‘Arsenal fans’ are available at multiple other sites.
A question that wasn’t asked in this fine piece came to mind this morning. When was the last time we had players to match our present batch in each department of the team?
My tuppence worth, massaging the current 4-3-3 into a 4-4-2 as they themselves often do mid-game, is:
In my opinion, Raya is the best goalkeeper we’ve had since Seaman and he may actually be better, and certainly is better with his feet (different era entirely of course). Mad Jens gets an honourable mention but I think Raya is the better all-round keeper.
The back four of Timber, Saliba, Gabriel and Calafiori is at least as good as the Invincible back four of Lauren, Toure, Campbell and Cole which probably just pips Gorgeous George’s legendary back four of Dixon, Bould, Adams and Winterburn – though when I used to watch the latter quartet, I felt we were more secure defensively than I did when watching Sol’s errratic forward passes.
The midfield of Saka, Zubimendi, Rice and Martinelli eclipses every midfield for solidity, creativity and goals since the days of Ljungberg, Vieira, Gilberto and Pires. Sadly, we didn’t give Fabregas the partner he deserved or he might have featured in a better quartet.
Up front, I think that as a creative force, Ødegaard is the best we’ve seen in an 8/10 since DB10 but we have yet to better the partnership of God with TH14, or indeed God with anyone. That’s the challenge for the returning fledgling partnership of Ødegaard and Gyökeres, our Scandi Strikeforce.
I have no doubt whatsoever that our current bench is the strongest I’ve ever seen (when fit) in my entire, far too long, football watching time. No other bench, of any club side, I have ever seen, comes close.
“Skål”
Many thanks, TTG for constructing a very interesting piece. Some excellent answers up there from all contributors.
The only thing I struggle with amongst those questions and answers is the matter of singling out individual performers – whether overall or just among the new signings. The culture that Arteta has built is based on unity and teamwork – whether between club, team and fans, or defence, midfield and attack on the pitch. It’s great to see all elements of the club pulling for each other – apart from a few half wits who seem to want Arteta out.
The players all work like trojans these days – an Arteta non-negotiable – in very varying roles. The new signings arrived with varying states of fitness and through the squad some players have suffered more than others with injuries. I would simply say that every single one of them has given his all to the cause and on that basis I can’t separate one from another.
Good to see that the blog is still read by genuine, sensible Arsenal fans – already 6 years next month since Dave’s passing. How he would have loved what has happened to the club since then ❤️
On a different matter – since we’re apparently going to need him imminently, there’s a brilliant piece on Arseblog today about Christhian Mosquera.
Trev@10: Thanks for the heads up on the Mosquera interview. He comes across as thoughtful and eloquent, but totally steel. If he did that interview entirely in English, that is even more impressive. You can see what Arteta sees in the young man.
@8 an interesting take on things Bath
If we win the league I might reconsider but it would take a lot to
get me to swap the famous five as a unit for anyone. The midfields
just made me think we have had some great players over the years.
Pires over Martinelli would be a simple call (for me) but the other
three would be very tough.
Ans no argument from me at all about the bench or the squad,
unbelievable depth.
Bath@8: Peak Szczesny, which we probably didn’t see, admittedly, would be a rival to Raya, though his peak, one would hope, is yet to come.
As for Lauren, Toure, Campbell and Cole v Dixon, Bould, Adams and Winterburn, you can’t slide a Rizzla paper between them. If there is one factor that might tilt it to the Famous Five, it is that they created the identity of GG’s team in a way that the Invincibles’ defence didn’t. That said, if Dixon, Bould, Adams and Winterburn had had DB10 and TH14 up front, ‘1-0 to the Arsenal’ might not have become such an iconic chant.
Different era, but Herbert Chapman’s defence of Frank Moss in front of George Male, Herbie Roberts and Eddie Hapgood, with Bob John and Frank Hills as the wing backs who fell back into a back five without the ball, should be up there in the pantheon of our great defences. In many ways, they were the prototype of the Famous Five, a structured defence (the first in English football) that was a platform for counterattacks — Chapman ahead of his times, as ever.
Bath@8
I’ve had an all- time Arsenal XI in my head for years which I alter under very exceptional circumstances. Two players have recently pushed their way into it . It is now as follows
Seaman
Timber Adams Mclintock Cole
Vieira Brady
Saka Bergkamp Pires
Henry
The subs bench can be expanded nowadays and it might be
Raya , Anderson , Campbell, Petit, Rice , Armstrong , Wright , Sanchez , Fabregas
And I didn’t include Joe Baker!
TTG @14. Gosh that’s a good team. I would swap Gabriel for Campbell on the subs bench. No O’Leary? So many left backs to choose from but difficult to disagree with Cole.
Free flowing football and an impenetrable defence. That front six is to die for. I presume a 4-3-3. What’s not to like?
Interesting. The departure of Tim Lewis now means Arsenal oppose the plans for a salary cap – which will scupper the plan.
https://www.thetimes.com/sport/football/article/arsenal-change-heart-scupper-salary-cap-2h0lq5gzt
C100
One of the joys of picking best ever teams is the comparison between eras . I’ve picked the two best captains I’ve ever seen leading Arsenal O’Leary was wonderful but who would he push out of that side . Jack Kelsey was a wonderful keeper in a poor side. Jimmy Rimmer was a fine keeper in an appalling side. Mad Jens and Bob Wilson were great keepers in great sides as was Pat Jennings .
I think Sol Campbell was the best defensive centre back in world football while he was with us but as Bath suggests he wouldn’t be good playing out from the back . I loved Bob Mcnab as a left back, Kenny Sansom was brilliant and Nutty was special too. I had Santi on the bench at one stage and I’d seriously consider Baker and Eastham , Charlie George and Gilberto for the bench . Rocky would make many people’s teams, peak Ozil was a great player and we’ve had super strikers like Stapleton ,RVP and Supermac .The list goes onWe are deeply privileged to have watched players of that ability
A tip of the hat TTG as I was just thinking about who you might have left out and you have covered nearly all of them @17 🫡 it will have to be a salute instead as I couldn’t find the hat tip emoji
But it’s a squad game these days so I might add Kennedy / Radford as a pair plus Peter Simpson. I thought Kos was underrated and of course we have William Saliba now.
What! No room for Eboué?
I often wonder how good the likes of Alex James, Cliff Bastin, Ted Drake and, really going back, say, Andy Ducat would have been had they been born a century later.
TTG@14: As C100 notes, that’s a good side. I also second your shoutout @17 for Jack Kelsey. No question that he is in the pantheon of our greatest keepers.
TTG @17 – great drink !
Matt @18 – my thought exactly when I saw McLintock in TTG’s side. Frank and Peter Simpson worked as such a great partnership it’s hard to think of one without the other. Just too many great players to choose from.
Trev@21: Good point. Great central defenders tend to come in pairs. Gabriel/Saliba, Touré/Campbell, Adams/Bould, McLinotock/Simpson — all four pairings so much more than the sum of their parts.
Ned @22 – as you doubtless know, McLintock would block the forward’s run to make sure he never had a clear jump at the ball and the taller Peter Simpson would make the header.
Simpson might actually have been pretty good at playing out from the back too – class player.
Trev
Absolutely agree about ‘ Stan’ Simpson . When you see caps thrown about like confetti and players like Dan Burn get multiple caps it can seem unfair . Simpson was a superb user of the ball, read the game well and could tackle thunderously, he was the very essence of hard but fair .
In the days when there was a bar in the East Stand at Highbury I occasionally went in there . One day Stan came in with John Radford after a game and as I left I found myself facing him . He had a testimonial the next week which I couldn’t attend but I thanked him for his magnificent service to the club. He looked genuinely appreciative and was clearly a very modest guy. Bob confirmed this and pointed out he was a contemporary of Moore,Hunter, McFarland, Todd , Smith and Charlton ( and several others )- most of them much better players than England has now !
He has suffered similarly to Jeff Astle and many others from that era but he is very much another in the pantheon of great Arsenal defenders.
Trev@23 and TTG@24: Simpson was hugely underrated. An absolutely top-draw defender. Like Arteta, it was his misfortune to play when his international team could call on some of the all-time greats in his position. He would probably walk into the current England back four.
In other, if all too familiar injury news, the BBC is reporting that Big Gabbi will be out for at least four weeks and maybe until January.
Nwaneri highlights including a lovely goal for England U21 tonight.
https://x.com/lmburnerrv2/status/1990856108446044501?s=61&t=cVFjCyGkt4y-Ne45LtfqkQ
Thanks for the link C100, twas a nice finish.
A shame about Gabriel’s injury, we will miss him but
we do have several good options.
Pleased for KT3, and a glass 🥃 on the bar for him
The problem with Gabriel’s injury is that he will be badly missed at both ends of the pitch. His defending speaks for itself but he is the main threat at our set pieces too. All this for yet another completely pointless international friendly. We lose 50% of the first 3 months of the season to this nonsense. Belgium, thankfully without Trossard, were at one stage beating Liechtenstein 7-0 this evening. I mean, what is the bloody point ?
There is another angle to all this which is – what state of readiness / conditioning are our players in that they are constantly one false move away from months long injuries ?
There is something very strange about all this.
There are also reports doing the rounds tonight that Kai Havertz has suffered a minor relapse in his comeback – according to Germany manager Nagelsmann. There are some doubts as to whether this is true but what the hell is he doing with Germany anyway – he hasn’t played for us in any capacity since the beginning of the season ?
I get that playing for their country means a lot to the players. But there is too much football for top players altogether, so at least let’s not make them play fixtures that have no meaning.
In contrast to my @29 – what a goal for Kieran Tierney – nobody deserves it more 👏🏻
>>>>>>>