Arsenal FC vs. Liverpool FC – 8th May 1971
Arsenal: Bob Wilson; Pat Rice, Bob McNab; Peter Storey, Frank McLintock, Peter Simpson; George Armstrong, George Graham, John Radford, Ray Kennedy, Charlie George. Sub: Eddie Kelly. Coach: Bertie Mee.
Scousers: Clemence; Lawler, Lindsay; Smith, Lloyd, Hughes; Callaghan, Hall, Toshack, Evans, Heighway. Sub: Thompson. Coach: Shankly.
Attendance: 100,000
A warm, sunny day greeted Arsenal and Liverpool to the 1970-71 FA Cup Final at Wembley Stadium. Both sides had been in excellent form, Arsenal winning 9 of their last 11 games, Liverpool losing only 2 of their last 15. The Gunners were buoyed by having clinched their first league title since 1953 in a rescheduled final league fixture at the Lane, only 5 days earlier. However, there were rumours of extended nocturnal celebrations in the White Hart pub in Southgate, although Charlie George claims he went home to bed! The Scousers had finished in 5th place, 14 points behind Arsenal but had had a few extra days rest since their final league game. Yet this Arsenal team had shown huge resilience throughout the season, playing away ties in every FA Cup round and recovering from 2-0 down to Stoke in the semi-final.
Peter Storey had missed the match at the Lane due to an ankle injury sustained in Arsenal’s penultimate league fixture against Stoke but passed a late test and returned to the starting eleven to replace Eddie Kelly. Frank McLintock, recently voted Player of the Year, captained Arsenal though his record of four defeats in four previous Wembley finals (2 for Leicester, 2 for Arsenal) must have preyed on his mind just as two consecutive Wembley cup final defeats in recent years must have cautioned even the most optimistic fan.
Frank won the toss and elected to change ends. Liverpool started on the front foot and Arsenal found it difficult to get the ball. In the first 30 seconds Heighway, regularly lauded by commentators for being the only Irishman ever to gain a University degree, was brought down at the edge of our box. Brian Moore described this as “an almost violent” challenge by Peter Storey, a player much beloved by the Guvna. Tommy Smith, the famously reticent Scouse captain gesticulated towards Peter Storey and earnestly but unsuccessfully encouraged referee Norman Burtenshaw to give him an early booking. The free kick sailed high and wide. Frank McLintock then immediately fouled Toshack near our right bye-line. That free kick also soared high and wide. Frank then clattered Toshack on our left flank conceding our third foul in the game’s first 70 seconds. This free kick rebounded off George Armstrong and we immediately conceded our fourth free kick in the first 2 minutes when Peter Simpson bumped Evans. Brian Moore observed that “Arsenal were beginning to clatter in a bit!” From this free kick there was brief panic in our box as Hall wriggled through but he was dispossessed. The clearance found Ray Kennedy unmarked. Ray ran unopposed into the opposition half but sent the ball past Clemence’s far post.
The game then settled down to fairly even possession and mutual cut-and-thrust with nice link-up play down our left between George Armstrong, Bob McNab and George Graham and on our right between Pat Rice, Peter Storey, John Radford and Charlie George but neither team created a direct threat on goal. Gradually Arsenal began to dominate possession encouraging Arsenal fans to be more vocal than the celebrated Scouse choristers. Peter Storey provided Arsenal’s first threat, appearing in the 6-yard box on the end of a long ball from Bob McNab but he was beaten to it by Lloyd. Play was scrappy for the next 10 minutes, both sides repeatedly turning the ball over in midfield and achieving no meaningful penetration until Ray Kennedy pounced on a back-pass by Hall. Sadly, he couldn’t find the target. Peter Storey then played a long through ball to Ray Kennedy who found George Graham moving into Liverpool’s box but Clemence and Lawler smothered the opportunity. Meanwhile Arsenal’s defenders were effectively blunting Liverpool’s attack who resorted to high balls into the box without threatening Bob Wilson.
George Graham was strolling elegantly past midfield challenges, rarely misplacing a pass. After 20 minutes he played a through ball for John Radford forcing Clemence to sprint out of his box to block the move. Midway through the first half co-commentator Jimmy Hill described Arsenal as ‘almost cocksure the way they were strolling around in the middle of the field’. Arsenal were definitely the better team and the best chances so far had fallen to Kennedy and Radford.
John Radford then blocked a Clemence kick from hands which upset the Liverpool players a tad and it was deemed an unfair challenge. Seconds later, a George Armstrong cross from the left was headed skywards by Ray Kennedy giving Peter Storey a heading opportunity at the far post. Storey collided with Clemence as he caught the ball which upset Liverpool’s players again. Scousers do outrage well. Seconds later a beautiful cross-field ball from Charlie George found John Radford on the left. Raddy hurdled a lunge from Smith to deliver a far post cross which Lindsay headed behind as Peter Storey again came charging in.
After 30 minutes the game reverted to alternate thrusts from both teams, the biggest Liverpool threat being a deep cross from the left by Heighway which Toshack missed completely. From a George Armstrong corner, a Peter Storey shot from the edge of the box went just over. A few minutes later a Charlie George shot from 40 yards also went just over. Sadly, a surging run from the halfway line into the box by Pat Rice ended disappointingly with a tame ball. The Arsenal defence had confined Liverpool to unthreatening long balls into our box but a speculative shot from 30 yards by Smith forced Bob Wilson into his first save.
As half-time loomed, the best chance of the match fell to George Armstrong in the 6-yard box when he met a John Radford cross from the right but his header was blocked by a reflex save by Clemence. Liverpool were then awarded a centrally located free kick 20 yards out after Peter Simpson dispossessed Evans with a sliding challenge. Callaghan squared it left to Lindsay whose low left foot shot forced Bob Wilson into a full length save at his left-hand post to turn it wide. Wilson then followed the ball out to block Lawler’s cross back in. The whistle went for half time as the resultant corner was taken.
Half Time: Arsenal 0-0 Liverpool
First half possession had been fairly even but Arsenal had used the ball far better and created more goal threat. After the stormy first couple of minutes the Arsenal defence had forced Liverpool to rely on punts towards Toshack whom Frank McLintock and Peter Simpson had marshalled effectively. George Graham and Charlie George had looked very assured in midfield. However, our only attempt on target was George Armstrong’s late header and we had Bob Wilson to thank for an excellent late save to preserve status quo.
“Good Old Arsenal” rang around the stadium before Arsenal kicked off the second half. The game then everted to end to end probing with little end product. From a long ball down the left by Bob McNab, John Radford neatly chipped Lawler inside the Liverpool penalty area. Raddy then clipped the ball to Ray Kennedy, unmarked in the six-yard box, but his left-foot shot hit Clemence and went wide. From the corner a looping header by John Radford was grasped at his post by Clemence as Ray Kennedy challenged. Arsenal dominated the next ten minutes with silky midfield play and probing balls but only Charlie George’s marginally wide drive from 25 yards threatened a goal. At the other end the Arsenal defence looked extremely comfortable. Liverpool’s principal tactic remained easily mopped up high balls towards Toshack. A few minutes later another Charlie George shot from the edge of the box went just wide.
After 63 minutes Eddie Kelly replaced Peter Storey who had been limping after an early second half knock. An exciting run from John Radford down the left ended in a neat turn and right foot shot inside the box straight at Clemence. A lovely chip into the box by Pat Rice was then cleared to George Armstrong whose shot from the edge of the box lacked power and direction. Liverpool were struggling to match Arsenal’s threat. Another break down the left by John Radford came to naught as his attempted cross was blocked by Hughes at the edge of the box. John Radford’s pace persistently troubled Liverpool’s defence.
Liverpool then substituted Thompson for Evans and with his first touch he beat Pat Rice and put in a cross to the far post for Toshack whose knock down was cleared by Peter Simpson’s spectacular overhead kick. Liverpool were invigorated by Thompson’s arrival and began to assert themselves but it was the Arsenal who came closest as the last 15 minutes loomed. A low cross by John Radford from the right, was met at the near post by Ray Kennedy whose shot from 6 yards skipped just wide. Seconds later, Pat Rice ran onto a John Radford through ball but was sent tumbling in the box by Hughes.
With under 15 minutes to go, a long throw from John Radford on the right was met at the near post by George Graham who flicked the ball goalward but Clemence touched it away and a panicking Smith turned it behind. From the corner George Graham met the ball 6 yards out and firmly headed it towards the far post but it was cleared off the line by Lindsay.
A rare Liverpool breakaway through Heighway was comfortably managed by Bob McNab and Bob Wilson. Another high ball into the box from Heighway on the right was knocked off Toshack’s head and gathered comfortably by Bob Wilson at the far post. A few minutes later Bob Wilson easily gathered another Thompson high cross to the far post. Liverpool were being more assertive but remained somewhat predictable.
With under ten minutes left a beautiful curling ball from Pat Rice found an unmarked Ray Kennedy in the middle of the Liverpool box – but he was offside. Another long throw from the right by John Radford caused a melee at the near post as the ball bounced across goal but ended with a free kick for a George Armstrong push. Then a cross from the right by George Armstrong was headed down by Ray Kennedy at the edge of the box to George Graham who shot straight at Clemence. At the other end Hall beat two Arsenal players to get sight of goal but his shot from the edge of the box soared well over. Liverpool then reverted to the high ball towards Toshack whose knockdown was cleared by Eddie Kelly. With 4 minutes left, John Radford picked up a loose ball outside the Liverpool box and slipped it to Ray Kennedy, clear in the box, but his left foot shot sailed past the far post. As full-time loomed, Liverpool roused themselves to throw several deep crosses into the Arsenal box, all cut out easily by Bob Wilson.
Full Time Arsenal 0-0 Liverpool
Arsenal had dominated the second half even more than they had dominated the first, creating but spurning several more chances. Their efforts on this hot sunny day had seemed to take a toll in the last ten minutes. Don Howe vigorously encouraged exhausted players sprawled on the touchline to one last effort. Could they find a second wind and rise to the challenge?
Liverpool won the toss and chose to change ends to face the way they would have done in the first half had Frank McLintock not chosen to change ends at kick-off. As Arsenal settled into extra time, “Good Old Arsenal” rang around the stadium but with less than two minutes played a speculative Peter Simpson punt from halfway was headed out to Thompson who fed Heighway on the left. He drew Pat Rice then struck a left foot shot from a wide angle that skimmed between Bob Wilson and his near post. Disaster! Bob wouldn’t be happy to watch that again. Could tired Arsenal legs respond?
Arsenal 0-1 Liverpool
Liverpool tails were up. Bob Wilson had to look lively to save a shot from Hall in the box from a Toshack knock-down from a corner. The Liverpool dirge rang out for the first time as George Armstrong was felled by Smith at the angle of their box. The free kick was blocked and Heighway sprinted away into our half only to produce a tragic ‘dying swan’ dive when tackled by Bob McNab. The Liverpool trainer came on and treated Heighway for cramp. Arsenal players were suddenly unable to hold onto the ball when they regained possession,. A Thompson dribble ended with Bob McNab blocking his shot. Frank McLintock’s diving header cleared a Hall cross. Then Frank had to make a game saving penalty area challenge on Hughes running onto a Smith through ball. We were under siege and Liverpool looked the better side for the first time since the first two minutes of the match. Nonetheless, Arsenal heads didn’t drop. This was a team that had recovered from 2-0 down to Stoke in the semi-final.
With ten minutes of extra time gone, George Armstrong rekindled Arsenal belief with a dribble into the Liverpool box from the right forcing a desperate clearance by Lloyd. The corner was cleared for an Arsenal throw on the left. Bob McNab threw the ball to Ray Kennedy in midfield. He played a one-two with Charlie George then passed it forward to John Radford who was standing centrally, about 30 yards out, with his back to goal. Unchallenged, Raddy flicked the ball up then lofted it over his head into the Liverpool box.
The ball fell towards the penalty spot where Eddie Kelly and Hughes jumped for it. It squirmed between Eddie Kelly and Hughes and landed on the ground between their legs. Smith joined the pair and got in their way. Eddie got a toe to the ball first, nudging it towards Clemence’s right-hand post. Now everything seemed to happen in slow motion until Gorgeous George ran in from the left and appeared to flick the ball into the goal past the onrushing Clemence from 6 yards. George continued his run celebrating as if he had scored. To this day, both Eddie and George claim the equaliser.
At the post-match banquet, match commentators Jimmy Hill and Brian Moore revealed that slow-motion replays demonstrated that George hadn’t touched the ball at all. His run towards the ball had simply distracted Clemence who otherwise looked set to smother it. A scrappy equaliser but they all count and who cares who scored? Game on!
Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool
Liverpool kicked off to trenchant cries of “Arsenal, Arsenal, Arsenal” and the Arsenal players were back on the front foot. Eddie Kelly surged through midfield, found George Armstrong unmarked on the right and almost met his high return ball to the far post but had it plucked off his head by Clemence. Spaces began to appear all over the pitch. Thompson raced down their left and squared to Toshack in our box but he was dispossessed by a tireless Charlie George. Liverpool then reverted to punting long balls forward meanwhile Ray Kennedy won the ball in midfield slipped it to John Radford whose drive from 30 yards was again straight at Clemence. Arsenal immediately regained possession and Ray Kennedy again set up John Radford who played a one-two with George Armstrong on the edge of the box but was then tackled by Smith as he ran towards goal. As the first half of extra time came towards a close Arsenal now appeared the fitter team and were again dominating possession. Liverpool were now struggling to retain the ball though Thompson did tee up Toshack who sent it well over.
ET HT Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool
The Arsenal players appeared eager to get on with the game whereas the opposition were slow to resume for kick off. Most now had their socks round their ankles. The first chance fell to Liverpool: a Toshack header from a Lindsay cross that went well wide. Ray Kennedy then shot wide after picking up the ball in midfield and driving at the Liverpool defence – he certainly still had energy! Thompson was Liverpool’s principal ball carrier but their strategy remained high balls towards an increasingly immobile and easily marshalled Toshack. Hall collapsed with cramp.
Arsenal again clearly looked the more purposeful team, linking up well with willing runners. Thompson provided Liverpool’s only threat with a far post cross from the right that skimmed off Toshack’s head. George Graham then sent a long ball into the box towards Ray Kennedy but Smith leapt across to clear. Clemence then had to collect an overhead kick from Peter Simpson after a long throw by John Radford. Arsenal kept regaining possession from Clemence’s goal-kicks and pushed forward into the wide-open spaces left by the Liverpool players. George Armstrong raced down the right but crossed into the side netting with an irritated Radford clear in the box.
With 111 minutes gone, George Graham headed Clemence’s goal-kick to John Radford on the left. Raddy played a one-two-three with Charlie George who was ahead and to his right. Taking the return pass, Charlie then took a stride towards the edge of the box and fired the ball past Clemence’s right hand. He turned and sprinted back a few yards then collapsed to the ground in his iconic celebration. Watch Charlie’s equaliser here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so_QY7IkYFc
Arsenal 2-1 Liverpool
Unsurprisingly Liverpool’s response was a high cross towards Toshack that was easily taken by Bob Wilson. Lloyd then had to intercept a John Radford through ball to Charlie George in the box. Toshack finally nodded a high cross down to a team-mate but Lawler blasted over from the edge of our box. Eddie Kelly now made several excellent challenges to snuff out Liverpool’s midfield as they tried to work an equaliser to force a replay three days later at Hillsborough. Arsenal then produced a multiplayer move to run down the clock and John Radford hit a piledriver from the right that was well saved by Clemence. Another hopeful Liverpool punt was headed away by Peter Simpson for a corner which Bob Wilson collected easily just before the referee blew full-time.
Full-time Arsenal 2-1 Liverpool
Arsenal had won their first double! Apart from the first two minutes and a short period after Liverpool’s goal, Arsenal had been clearly the better team, dominating possession and creating but spurning many more goal-scoring opportunities. Every player had played his part with George Graham and John Radford vying for Man of the Match. Arsenal’s superior fitness in extra time was a result of Don Howe’s famous exercise programme which included carrying each other up the terraces on piggy back! Never was hard work better rewarded. There can be little doubt that celebrations again went long into the night.
On that sunny Saturday afternoon, it looked as if this was an Arsenal team that might dominate English football for several years. Sadly, that was not to be. Jon Sammels, an underappreciated scorer of key goals, who played no part in the final, was already half-way out the door. Don Howe left later that summer to become manager of West Brom, taking two coaches and the critical components of resilience and belief with him. The purchase of Alan Ball, a second consecutive cup final in 1972 and the club’s failure to achieve sustained dominance are another story.
Further sources:
The ITV Big Match footage of this match with commentary by Brian Moore and Jimmy Hill is available on Footballia (https://footballia.net/matches/arsenal-fc-liverpool-fc).
A very good interview with Eddie Kelly and Charlie George and a very good image of the equalising goal are available here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4429884/Charlie-George-Eddie-Kelly-beating-Manchester-City.html
thirst!
i do believe this is a humdinger of a post. now to read it 🙂 btw baff, the pics, and their referent provenances, are perfect.
Exhilarating, breathtaking read.
Bath, did you rewatch the match recently in recording? Or is this purely based on your recollection aligned with old detailed match reports? Whatever may the source of inspiration be, the outcome is thrilling.
That, to quote a famous Swede, 30 years later, was fuckin’ excellent.
More power to your pen, baff.
CUYG
Thanks gents. Much appreciated.
I watched the match on the Footballia site which has the entire ITV match commentary. I hadn’t seen it since it was first broadcast in 1971 so apart from knowing the result and remembering the three goals and Charlie’s celebration it was like watching a new match. I hadn’t recalled that Arsenal had so dominated the game and that had we not recovered from the Heighway goal it would have lierally been ‘Heighway robbery’ like the final in Cardiff that we deserved to win but lost to a flukey Owen breakaway goal in the early noughties after a couple of Henchoz handballs in the Liverpool box that were overlooked by the ref.
I’ll be interested to hear the thoughts of those who were actually at the ’71 final.
Bath,
A very Holicesque rendering a huge moment in our history. There can be no higher compliment. Dave described games brilliantly and you have done the same here..
I had failed to get in at White Hart Lane on the Monday despite leavingbtye office an hour early ( 5 mins from Liverpool Street) . I was gutted particularly as I had no ticket for the final . On the Wednesday afternoon I received a call from the bloke who captained the office football team. He had been asked by a business colleague in Manchester branch who had a ticket for the Arsenal end that he couldn’t use . Did I want it? The most unnecessary question I’ve ever been asked !
It arrived by post the next morning and he only wanted face value for it ( 3/6d ) as I recall
Bath has described the game so well. Once we got into our stride we played them off the park.George Graham ran the game in midfield, Simpson was brilliant ( I still remember that defensive overhead kick ) and Radford was tireless and ran Larry Lloyd into the ground. Sadly Geordie never played as well at Wembley as he did everywhere else., Storey was carrying an injury and Ray Kennedy froze a bit.
Bob is still embarrassed by that goal but immediately counters ‘ But did you see my save from Brian Hall?’. I counter, ‘ No I still had my head in my hands after your blooper!’ Bob was absolutely brilliant that season so can be excused.As he was walking back from inspecting the pitch before the game, Shankly pointed out that it had rained in the morning ‘ and was very tricky for goalies laddie!’. You can’t trust these Scots !
Frank McLintock said he was so tired at the final whistle that he didn’t think he could get up the steps to receive the cup . The team were especially pumped up to win it for Frank. Bob said he threw his Swindon loser’s medal in the Wembley mud and they had to get a musician from the band to recover it. He felt a massive sense of relief after the game as he genuinely thought he was jinxed.
I was immediately behind the goal that Charlie scored in. As soon as he hit it you could see Clemence wasn’t getting there ( maybe Shankly was right) . Charlie was running on fumes after that and in a funny way it defined his life thereafter, especially at Arsenal and he never recaptured anything like that glorious moment again. But what a memory to have .
It was a great day and we definitely merited the victory. I will remember aspects of it forever but Bath’s superb recounting of the details brings so much back .
colleague in Manchester
Top stuff, bath, almost made me think I was there. 🍺
Back to the present, one of the pictures in the Evening Standard article, “First pictures of Arsenal players in training since coronavirus lockdown as Gunners prepare for season restart” has me flummoxed unless Hector has shaved off all his hair.
Cracking match report Bath 😃
A thoroughly enjoyable & comprehensive match report Bath. Frightening to think that next year it will be 50th anniversary. The souvenir programme at 10 pence and match ticket at £2 – those were the days.
All 22 players & 2 subs were of UK birth, The Arsenal team comprised 8 English, 3 Scots & 1 Northern Irish. Just the 1 sub allowed at that time. I’m counting Bob Wilson as English as his place of birth is Chesterfield – he qualified to play for Scotland as his parents place of birth.
No doubt all gooners were still on a high following winning the league at the swamp the previous monday evening. Going on to win the cup 5 days later and thus completing the double put the marsh dwellers back in our shadow to where they have remained ever since.
Well played, bath !
You must have worked hard on your fitness to produce that !
The main reason we won that match is because I wasn’t there ! Despite getting in to Shite Hart Lane on the Monday – right behind the goal where Ray Kennedy headed the winner – I had not managed to get a ticket for Wembley. I was there for all our losing Finals of that era – the only other one I missed was, of course, the Man Utd final which we also won !
However, the Fairs Cup at Highbury and the ‘71 League title at Tottenham we’re decent compensation !
I’m tempted to watch this ‘71 Cup Final again now, just to study exactly how McLintock and Simpson – possibly the most underrated player of his time – dealt with all those long high balls to Toshack.
I’ve heard Frank say before that they realised they were not the tallest defensive partnership and needed a plan to counter that. Frank would therefore, being the shorter, always jump with and into the forward trying to win the ball and do everything possible to stop him getting a good head to the ball – Peter Simpson would use his positioning and reading of the situation to tidy up the result. I shall rewatch with extra interest.
Thanks guys.
Trev @9, I’ve heard that that Arsenal squad had several of the best uncapped and undercapped players in the history of English football. Peter Simpson was certainly right up there along with John Radford and George Armstrong, though he had to contend with golden boy Moore in his position.
I’ve also heard it said that Alf Ramsey had a deep and irrational hatred of Arsenal based on his roots in the swamp up the road and simply could not bring himself to recognise any qualities in Arsenal players. Whether it is true that he couldn’t see past his prejudice or not, I understand that Charlie George, one of the most gifted players of his generation got only 2 caps during a period when England persistently failed to reach the major finals.
Bath / Trev, you list all the un-capped players in that team but Peter Storey actually won 19 engerlund caps. It’s a funny old game 🤓
Uply, watching that game again underlined for me that Peter Storey was a much classier player than I had remembered. In my memory he was primarily a disruptor of the opposition and hard as nails. While that was part of his game, he was also a creative force in midfield and an attacking threat. A player we could certainly have done with during the last decade. I can’t remember who would have challenged him for that role in England’s midfield but it doesn’t surprise me that he won 19 caps. One of the Guvna’s all time favourites too.
Bath @10,
Yes, Ramsey certainly had an aversion to Arsenal players – some of the omissions were very hard to understand.
I loved Peter Storey in that Arsenal team. No-one “got in Arsenal players’ faces” when he was around. His reputation extended off the field too. After his playing days were over, he was reportedly arrested for being in possession of a gun at the Jolly Farmers pub on the road between Cockfosters and Enfield.
Fabulous account, Bath, rekindling memories of such an historic day although I wasn’t there. I do recall it was very hot and sunny (like most Cup Final days it would seem?) and making a mad dash through the open french doors to do a celebratory lap of the garden when Charlie’s goal flew in! I didn’t have a ticket but I do still have the match programme. I had also listened to the championship clinching Sperz match from the garden – we (unfortunately!) lived closer to White Hart Lane in those days and I could hear the noise of the crowd from there. I have very fond memories of that garden! Bath, thanks for the memories 🙂
Perhaps we could invite him to become Honorary President of Goonerholics Forever? TTG might have communication channels.
3/6d, TTG? We’d gone decimal that February.
Wonderful piece, bath. And as noted above, Guv’noresque in its style. Brings back such memories of a team at its apex.
Uply@8: Dublin-born Heighway might take exception to your geography.
bath@10: reupping this from a couple of posts back:
The 70-71 double winning team was ridiculously under-capped for the talent it contained. Just 188 caps across the careers of the squad, two-thirds of them accounted for by Pat Rice and Sammy Nelson for Northern Ireland and John Roberts for Wales. Of that trio, only Pat Rice would be considered a starter for the double side.
Nelson Northern Ireland 51 caps
Rice Northern Ireland 49
Roberts Wales 22
Storey England 19
Kennedy England 17
Graham Scotland 12
McLintock Scotland 9
McNab England 4
Wilson Scotland 2
Radford England 2
George England 1
Simpson England 0
Armstrong England 0
Sammels England 0
Kelly Scotland 0
Marinello Scotland 0
Barnett England 0
Ned @ 17 Well spotted by the monks – please give them an extra ration ( that’s between them, not each of course).
Uply@19: Of course.
Ingenious bit of money-raising by Borussia Monchengladbach. For 19 euros, fans could have a cardboard cut-out of themselves in the stands for their team’s game against Bayer Leverkusen. Thirteen thousand paid up, including some away fans.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52771326
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/may/22/the-joy-of-six-footballs-wing-wizards
Wot?? No Geordie Armstrong?
Didn’t see Garrincha,Jonstone
or Matthews live. The other 3
were good obviously on their
day but no better than Geordie
in my completely subjective
opinion.
Ned
Yes my memory failed on the cost of the ticket. I notice the one in the picture was £2.00! I did pay him thevright amount but I can’t remember what it was!
Bath makes a good point about our uncapped players. I don’t want to knock Theo for instance but to see him get 47 caps ( I believe) when Geordie got none is ridiculous . Geordie was a much better player and one who didn’t duck a struggle as Theo often did. Stan Simpson was up against some super players but was easily their equal in my view and Bob McNab was a very good left back who was only used sporadically. Radford and Kennedy were a great pairing but Chivers had an incredible burst of form and Geoff Hurst was still around.
As for Charlie he joined the ranks of the maverick players of that time – Marsh , Osgood , Currie and co who didn’t quite convince Sir Alf although they all got caps. I think Charlie underachieved in his career and I think he does too
Thanks for the kind words Bodrum Gooneress. I wish it could have had the personal touch of your match report. It was the first opportunity I had to watch a full Arsenal match though and that goal by Charlie (and the celebration) planted a seed.
Matt, I never saw Geordie Armstrong live but I do recall his constant involvement and threat. That appears to be a very subjective list and doesn’t even include George Best. I would have chosen Geordie over John Robertson myself.
I did see Jimmy Johnstone play in 1967 when I persuaded my father to take me to a cup-tie between that all-conquering Celtic team and Elgin City at Parkhead. I didn’t know any of the Celtic team before I went but have very clear memories of being impressed with a red-headed wizard on the right repeatedly tormenting the left-sided defenders of my home town team in what I think was a seven goal rout. Johnstone was an amazing winger but a major problem was his temperament, second to which was his fondness for the sauce. Jock Stein had the publicans of east Glasgow and west Lanarkshire primed to phone him every time Johnstone entered their pubs and would appear within minutes to take him home. Ferguson did the same in Aberdeen with a few of his wayward lads and no doubt did the same at Manchester.
Bath,
Yeah, I’ve seen clips of Johnstone
on tv and he looks the definition
of tricky
I noticed again the Cup Final
was after we won the league
though I had it the other way
round in my Unforgiven post.
I’ve made that mistake before,
and been told, I don’t know why
my memory insists on tricking
me 😓
In the Guardian’s defence, its Joy of Six series is just that, a list of six somethings with no pretence of ranking or comprehensiveness. They picked six wingers who stand the test of time, but they could equally well have chosen a different six or sixty-six. Not only no Geordie Armstrong but also no Robert Pires or Cliff Bastin? In his way, Bastin was just as revolutionary for wing play as Matthews and would slot into a Premiership team formation in a way a Matthews-type winger would not.
TTG, Agree that Charlie George underachieved in his career given his talent. Had the double-winning side not been broken up so quickly and had he been luckier with injuries in his early-to-mid-twenties, it might have been different.
To fill another quiet Sunday in lockdown, here is an old Four-Four-Two article speculating on what England’s World Cup-winning team might have looked like had fate not intervened. Spoiler alert: George Eastham would have played and not been an unused member of the squad.
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/fifty-years-was-englands-1966-winning-xi-destiny-fate-or-a-chance-affair
A good read, thanks Ned@29.
The only nit in the article which I would wish to pick is the description of Ramsey’s system – “4-3-3″ (in the paragraph below the picture of the Charlton Brothers”) ?! “4-1-3-2” (same para) ??!! There’s even a reference to “4-3-1-2” in the penultimate paragraph, but that looks like a typo.
I have never heard it described as anything or than “4-4-2”.
Just a wee nit – but a nit none the less.
CUYG
Bath,
I only ever saw Johnstone on TV and like a lot of wingers then he tended not to be under the pressure of players tracking back ( in fact Geordie was the first winger to track back in the way he did ) . Watching the Matthews Final Sir Stan had so much space and time to tear the poor old full backs apart . I suspect Johnstone and his contemporary at Rangers, Willie Henderson , would have been good in any era but it would have been a very different challenge now .
Re Charlie George I understand that he had major problems with Bertie Mee , and they got so bad he was close to joining the Marshdwellers . For a man who bleeds red and white like Charlie does , it suggest the problems were extreme. He conducted my Stadium tour a few years ago and I asked him if he would really have joined the old enemy. He rather brushed it off but he did confirm that he and Bertie didn’t get on . One sadness I’ve mentioned before is that he told us that none of the ( then) current team knew who he was or his contribution to the club. That is , to my mind, very sad
Ned @29, interesting article. Thnks for posting.
Pangloss @30, I think 4-1-3-2 is a better description of the way Ramsey lined up his team during those finals. I suspect 4-4-2 was used at the time as the former breakdown was a step too far for the analysts of the day. Without question, Stiles patrolled behind the threesome of Ball, Charlton and Peters. 4-4-2 would imply a width that would not reflect the way Ball and Peters played.
TTG 231, I saw Willie Henderson play several times. He was good but I think Johnstone would have been far harder to stop. Scotland had a glut of wingers in the 60’s and every top team had at least one if not two. I have fond memories of Jimmy Wilson, Ian Taylor and Arthur Graham at Aberdeen. Davie Wilson was an excellent left winger for Rangers, later replaced by Willie Johnston as was Bobby Lennox for Celtic. Sadly that assembly line has stuttered for a couple of decades though Ryan Fraser is a throwback to that tradition. Arsenal’s most typical example would be Alex James, before our time of course.
I’d heard that Charlie was so unhappy that he considered an approach from the Marshdwellers before going to Derby. A very sad state of affairs and a forerunner of the martinet vs maverick battle we saw with Rioch and Wrighty.
Bath @31 – Fair comment, looking at the article again, in the knowledge that their proofreaders were capable of letting through the “4-3-1-2” instead of “4-1-3-2” typo, I suspect that in the line “Ramsey’s World Cup winners are often described as a 4-3-3”, there is another typo and it should have read “…as a 4-4-2”. Conceivably the latter version was pulled as it would call into question the name of their august organ. (Oooooo errrrr missus!)
Probably a micro-nit, and not worth picking. Apologies; I bet you regret reading this ramble now.
I’m not in the least regretful, Pangloss @33. It’s exactly the kind of discussion about football that I enjoy. We all pick nits. It’s human nature, not to mention hygienic!
I’m sure you are correct that the ‘Wingless Wonders’ were descibed as 4-4-2 in the late 60’s and 70’s but they weren’t 4-4-2 like Wengerball Mark 1 and Mark 2’s 4-4-2 imho because of the width issue referred to above.
speaking of width, where’s steve t. gotten to?
Excellent post – just like being there, which I was.
Like TTG I travelled to WHL earlier in the week but didn’t get in. Stood down the road until victory was confirmed but later went to Trafalgar Sq. where I somehow ended up in one of the fountains. I had borrowed one of my brother’s jackets and I had to have it dry cleaned which I was somewhat pissed off about.
So an immediate Wembley final was a good way to cheer up. Unlike others I attended I was always quite confident that we would win and so it was. I stood right behind the goal where Charlie scored. What a day. What a week. One of the best weeks in my life probably – apart from the visit to the dry cleaners.
Thanks for the memories.
UTA.
As we’re talking about Charlie
George – he used to work next
door to me in Kings X many
years ago. I knew him to say
hello to (which chuffed me no
end but my early 20s self tried to
play it cool) and I’d see him in the
betting shop most days. He told
me to back Inter Milan to overturn
a 2-0 first leg deficit against Villa in
the European Cup one as they were
different class. I wish I’d listened.
Inter won 3-0 and he was a very
happy man the next day.
Apologies if I’ve bored you with
that story before – he’s the only
footballer I’ve ever actually talked
with!
Thanks Noosa @37, and you’re most welcome,mate.
Matt @38, you haven’t and it’s a great story (and experience).
Scruz @59, Steve is working his socks off at the moment due to the Covid crisis.
I don’t know where 59 came from. That should have been scruz @36. And I did think of Steve T, after I wrote about width. A topic, along with many, upon which he and I are in total agreement.
Noosa@37. My big brother and I responded differently to being locked out of WHL in May 71 and went back home on the bus. On the way we heard the following immortal conversation between a couple of other Gooners who had been locked out:
1st disappointed Gooner: ‘Ere, if we lose tonight, let’s go down the ‘olloway Road and smash few windows.
2nd disappointed Gooner: Yeah, an’ if win tonight, let’s go down the ‘olloway Road and smash a few windows.
Ah… simpler times, simpler pleasures.
CUYG
@39
Thanks Bath. As everyone says
he’s really a nice bloke
OM@38: Great story.
If there is anything to these rumours that we are interested in Courtinho, Arteta would have to clear out the squad big time to afford him and then build a team around the Brazilian, which could leave us in an Ozil 2.0 situation.
It would certainly surprise me
if we bought Coutinho. Maybe
we’re hoping to get him cheap
as things haven’t been going
well for him football wise.
I’ll assign it an arbitrary 10%
chance and forget about it
10% might be generous, OM.
Matt, Ned, we’re not signing him – far too expensive.
This summer is going to be a matter of Courtinho cloth accordingly. 😏
Unless we get him for a snip. Trev.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Coutinho’s agent is Kia Joorabchian who is Raul Sanllehi’s new best friend and a regular visitor to the Director’s box at our ground. Coutinho was linked with us in the summer on a loan deal but I suspect the economics of it weren’t feasible. If that was the case it is even less feasible now. Joorabchian may be getting his client a bit of pre-window exposure . I’m sure this sort of deal is quite inconceivable for us this summer
Ryan Fraser , while not a direct alternative to Coutinho is strongly linked to us and would come on a free ( a relative term) . This one is much more likely particularly if we can offload Mkhitaryan . That would be our Scottish winger 2020 edition then! A decent player
Well in for the demi-centenary TTG. Effortless for a true Pro.
Nice schmutter puns, gents.
I really cannot see us shelling out for Coutinho and the link to Joorabchian is, as noted by TTG (and Arseblog) almost certainly significant in the generation of today’s smoke. I don’t believe there’s a spark of interest let alone any fire.
The last I saw on Fraser was that he had expressed ambitions to move to the shitty end of the Seven Sisters Road. I don’t think that’s a fitting ambition for anyone with any future at the Arsenal.
Well in for the half-ton, TTG.
The Courtinho story has the smell of ulterior motives: single-sourced and the original using the sort of future conditional tenses that French excels at.
Wy would we buy a winger like Ryan Fraser beyond the fact that he is a useful player with Premiership experience. Don’t we have young wingers coming through a plenty? Of that ilk, Trae Coyle is training with the first team, I read on Jorge Bird’s site, along with a couple of the other youngsters.
Trev,Ned
🙂
Agree Fraser isn’t bad though he’s been less effective this season
but I don’t think we’ll be on the lookout for any wingers.
If we sign Fraser….we’re dooooomed ! ( with apologies to Dad’s Army)
🙂
I couldn’t resist posting this (to assist the cousins):
bath @57, me wife’s been sayin’ “we’re doooomed” since we met…
and thanks for the steveT info on 40…glad he’s just busy, sucks he’s busy because of that!
btw, i’ve not appreciated your piece to you. outstanding job, my friend. i now have to get on footballia and watch it, i’d (of course) only seen cg’s hit on replay. thanks for that!
Thanks scruz. Much appreciated. After the first two minutes of Arsenal assertive defending, you could cut to the last 5-10 minutes of the first half without missing too much. The nest hour and 15 minutes are the best viewing and if time is a premium you could cut to the beginning of ET to see the best of this Arsenal team.
bath@59, that’s usually how i watch reruns…only the best bits 🙂 why bother with what would otherwise have me chewing fingers behind the couch?
A story on Sky Sports that Luiz
is in fact on a 1 year deal not
two. And they are suggesting
he will leave – I only noticed
it today and never normally
read Sky so I’ve no idea how
reliable it is.
I suppose we will have a lot
of CBs next season especially
if Mari stays so it’s possible.
I didn’t mind if we kept him
another season as he was doing
quite well under Arteta.
I’ve just rewatched the ITV match-day coverage of the game in its entirety. It is on YouTube, with commentary by Brian Moore and Jimmy Hill. The Heighway goal is so much less nervous-making when you know the final result. 🙂 The bigger point is that on the day we made a Liverpool side packed with stars look very ordinary, which is usually a mark of a fine, all-round team performance.
OM: Reading between the lines of the press reports, it seems the club has an option to extend David Luiz’s contract for a second year, but has not yet exercised the option. I have no idea why not, although I can see why it would not want to decide about Luiz until it knew whether it had shifted Sokratis and/or Mustafi. I did wonder if this is the sort of story an agent plants in the media to get a bit of leverage over the club to get it to move things forward one way or the other.
Ned
And Luiz’s agent is…Kia Joorabchian , who seems to be running our club at the moment !
It’s a story that has come from Football London, not an impeccable source especially as news that Arsenal had to decide on whether to offer Luiz an extension to his contract a few weeks ago . Taking him on a one year contract with the option to extend makes perfect sense given his slightly erratic career . Under Emery he had a very poor start but was excellent under Arteta . But we have all sorts of tough decisions to make , which may mean pruning the squad, especially the high earners and we will not be alone .I suspect teams like Villa who brought in vast numbers of players will be quaking at the prospect of relegation as will West Ham . I don’t think most fans have any conception of just how huge the financial hit may be for most clubs . If you read the comments section in Le Grove which I do about once a month , it boggles the mind that anyone thinks we can drop £50 m on a player nowadays . But they are suggesting that the club has loads of cash and Kroenke just needs to get his wallet out. How little they appreciate aboutbtye financial rules in place now
We have a glut of CBs and we must shed at least two from the books. I trust MA8 to make the decision but agree with TTG that financial considerations and ease of ‘getting rid’ will play as big a part in the decision as footballing issues particularly when it comes to the older members of that group.
I don’t visit le Grove but do see such nonsense amongst the other nonsense on my rare visits to Twitter. I suspect that anyone we bring in will be a loan deal or the result of a swap.
Sorry, Bath, very late to the party on this. Golf games and bike rides taking preference over any thoughts of football at the mo. Excellent piece. Really enjoyed reading it. Inspired me to watch 89 again on May 26th (coincidentally my mum’s birthday) so next beer’s on me when we catch up. But then, isn’t it always? NO! – Steve T looms large in my beverage subconscious 🙂 🙂 🙂
TTG: Thanks for that background. I thought Giuliano Bertolucci’s agency represented David Luiz, although I know Bertolucci and Kia Joorabchian work closely together and seem to rep Courtinho jointly. It is such a murky world. One good thing to come out of this pandemic would be if the financial crunch clubs will find themselves in also put the squeeze on agents.
You are, of course, right about transfer fees in the current situation. And anyone who thinks that Kroenke just needs to get his wallet out and we shall be in clover, is just showing how little they know the man.
,
bath: If we are culling CBs on a cost basis, David Luiz (£125,000 a week) would be first out the door, followed by Sokratis (£92,000), Mustafi (£90,000), Chambers (£50,000), Holding (£25,000) and Mapravanos (£25,000). Not sure what Mari makes but I am assuming we will turn his loan into a permanent signing; otherwise the loan ends and the salary saving is moot. There is also Saliba to take into account if he comes back from France, but I doubt his wages are massive. Out of that list, my 2-cents would be that Luiz, Mari, Saliba and either Holding or Mapravanos plus one of Sokratis, Mustafi and Chambers would be on the roster for next season. Sokratis and Mustafi both offer experience if Luiz gets crocked, but Chambers provides utility cover as centre back, full back or DM.
BtM @66, thanks. I enjoyed watching the ’71 game so much that I have now watched the ’89 triumph at Anfield (always a pleasure – and a surprise that Michael Thomas doesn’t miss that late goal!) and Scotland’s 0-0 draw with Brazil in ’74 (that was a hell of a Scotland team – they really should have done better and Bremner really should have scored that rebound to his feet 2-3 yards out). I find I have enjoyed those games far, far better than anything I have watched at the Grove in recent years. BTW if you haven’t spotted them, there are some classic Scotland WC games avilable on catch up on teh BBC.
Ned @68, we are bound to shed 2-3. I trust MA8 to weigh the multiple pros and cons and make the best calls for the club’s future. I don’t trust Sanhelli though.
bath@69 (ooh, nurse!): we are willing sellers but are there willing buyers?
@68
Pretty much agree with that summary
Ned. Times are hard and the market
difficult, selling Mus should be no
problem 😉
According to BBC Sport the season will restart on June 17, with Man City v Arsenal and Villa v Sheffield United
Sir Chips is retiring after 8 years as Chairman.
I’ve not been approached yet . Stuff ‘em I say .
I think Bath would be the perfect successor- distinguished, intelligent but probably a drawback, he knows something about football .
I wonder if it would help candidates to succeed Sir Chips to have the surname Kroenke.
The board will be reduced to four from five with Sir Chips retirement. Every little bit helps in these impecunious times, I suppose.
June 17 seems too soon. Do we really gain anything by not ending the season now?
TTG @73, thank you for the kind words but you are a far, far better candidate unless AW puts his hat in the ring. Your life long commitment (not to mention blood-line) puts my johnny-come-lately history to shame. For my part, I have already declined some opportunities to take on a couple of dysfunctional groups since retirement and having spent my latter years in harness as an executive sorting out several dysfunctional organisations, I have no desire to spend any more years on such a task. Everything I choose to do now, I do for pleasure.
How the restart is doing in Germany: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52819868
Plenty there to encourage the Premiership and UK broadcasters, more’s the pity.
Ned,
A cynical person might feel the haste with which this is being pursued is to deflect attention away from quite unnecessary trips to the North- East during lockdown and other areas of scrutiny. I think to be fair the Government see tgat a return to something relatively ‘ normal’ will help the process of recovering from the trauma of the virus . Frankly , at this stage, I’ve got very little enthusiasm for what might ensue but this may change , especially if we were to go on a winning run. But football hasn’t loomed large in many of our lives recently and after such an unenjoyable season enthusiasm isn’t high .
sir chips is goin’ fishin’…hereafter he will be known as fishin’ chips.
i posted this poll today on our club fb page. what would you choose?
scruz,
I’m with you on the
natural noise of players
abusing the hapless ref.
You haven’t included the FC Seoul
option I see 🙂
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